SPEAKER_07 0:03

Welcome to the special ends.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Here's your host, Chris Houston. Happy 2024 Heisman Week, everybody. Our four Heisman finalists were announced on Monday night on ESPN. As you probably know by now, the four finalists are Dylan Gabriel, quarterback from the University of Oregon, Travis Hunter, wide receiver slash cornerback from the University of Colorado, Ashton Genty, running back, Boise State University, and Cam Ward, quarterback from the University of Miami. The 90th Heisman Trophy ceremony will take place in New York on Saturday night, televised by ESPN. The presentation begins at 8 p.m. Eastern Time, and we should know the winner just before 9 o'clock. And I want to make a note about the finalists this year. It's often a misnomer out there that the Heisman Trophy just goes to the best player on the best team of the country. And if you just look at the results of the Heisman, you can see that's not really the case. While it's true that these circumstances are often aligned where you get the best player on the best team winning the trophy, it's certainly possible that for the second season in a row, the Heisman Trophy winner will come from a team that is not even in the playoff, which just goes to show you how closely our Heisman electorate pays attention when it comes to deciding who is the most outstanding player in college football. Anyway, it's Heisman Week. The four finalists will make their way to New York City Friday over Saturday, take part in some great activities. They'll get to meet some college football legends, pick up some cool swag, including a Heisman commemorative watch from Axia Time. Of course, we'll be in New York City too and be talking to the Heisman Trophy finalists and bringing you a full report of the Heisman Trophy weekend on next week's episode, which sadly will also be our season finale. So on this, our penultimate episode of the season, we have Archie Griffin, who was on our very first episode last year. He is going to be honored in New York City for the 50th anniversary of his first Heisman Trophy. Of course, he'll be back next year to be honored for the 50th anniversary of his second Heisman Trophy. Always great to catch up with Archie Griffin. After that, we'll have Neil Everett, longtime ESPN anchor and friend of the Heisman Trophy. Also, Corey McCartney, who has written books about the Heisman and has covered the Heisman Trophy for many years. He really knows his stuff when it comes to the Heisman. In addition to this show, be sure to check out our bonus pod, Heisman 101 Upright Now. Everything you need to know about the Heisman Ceremony and Heisman voting process. Definitely a great segment for those of you who are really into the Heisman in college football. So we're going to take a brief break and we'll be back with Archie Griffin. We're celebrating 90 years of Heisman excellence at the new Heisman Legends brunch on December 15th, the day after the Heisman ceremony. Join the Heisman Trophy family at this historic gathering as we celebrate nine decades of Heisman history while featuring an extraordinary lineup of Heisman winners from the 1960s to today. We'll have an exclusive meet and greet for our guests to connect with Heisman Legends, followed by a celebratory brunch. This is your chance to be part of an unforgettable afternoon. Not only will you hear our Heisman winner stories firsthand, you'll also support the impactful charitable work of the Heisman Trust. Secure your tickets now for this special event. Space is limited and you won't want to miss it. Go to Heisman.com to reserve your tickets today.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Hey guys, this is Barry Sanders, the 1988 Heisman Trophy winner, and you are listening to the official Heisman Trophy Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Archie Griffin, the 1974 and 1975 Heisman Trophy winner. Welcome back to the official Heisman Trophy Podcast. Well, thank you for having me, Chris. You know, there's a special day coming up next week, and that's the 50th anniversary of the first of your two Heisman Trophy victories. Can you believe it's been 50 years already?

SPEAKER_06 4:24

Oh, it's really hard to believe that it's been 50 years. You know, time fast passes so fast. I mean, it's just uh incredible.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:32

Uh but I'll tell you what, it's been a good uh 50th year. I've had a lot of fun uh this year doing a lot of uh exciting things, and uh it's been great.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Well, it looks like you haven't aged uh a day since the last 50 years, that's for sure. You're one of the great ambassadors of the Heisman, but this is the first time in 25 years that you'll be specifically honored on a Heisman weekend. What are you looking forward to the most about this year's event?

SPEAKER_06 4:57

Well, uh I'm looking forward to what I look forward to every year, and that is getting back uh with uh uh my Heisman friends, my my Heisman partners, and uh having a good time in New York City and and bringing in uh the newest Heisman winner. That that's that that's the main thing. That's the purpose uh of the event, and uh that's always uh exciting.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah. Of course, this year there's no uh nighttime Heisman gala like we've been used to. We're going to a Heisman brunch. What do you think of the new format?

SPEAKER_06 5:26

Well, uh it remains to be seen, tell you truth. Uh I'm I'm I'm I'm looking forward to it. Uh you know, I've always enjoyed uh the uh nighttime event. Uh it was always something very, very formal and and something that you look forward to. So I'm really uh looking forward to seeing how this luncheon or brunch uh goes. I think it'll be just fine, though. I I think it's an opportunity uh for a lot of people to get together again and bring in uh the new Heisman winner. And you know, with the playoffs, the way that uh they're gonna be this year, it's kind of hard to have that night event and have all those uh candidates uh stay around for uh a period of time. So I think this is the best thing for uh the Heisman.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Yeah. One of the finalists this year is Boise State running back Ashton Genty, like you, not the biggest guy, but tough as nails. What do you think about him as a back and what he's accomplished?

SPEAKER_06 6:18

Oh, Ashton's been uh phenomenal. I mean, when you think of the uh yardage that he's gained, with these over 2,000 yards. Uh he's had about five games or so, over 200 yards. Uh, and uh, you know, it's just been absolutely incredible. I think he averages almost eight yards of carry. So, you know, what he's done this year has been absolutely uh phenomenal. And I'm really looking forward to to meeting him because uh I like seeing guys uh uh about my size and and uh I just like to see running backs uh do extremely well. We hadn't had a running back to win that uh thing in a long time. So it'll be interesting to see uh how he ends up uh in the voting.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

What do you what do you think about uh his running style? Uh what are some things he does that that you think are just uh uh you know outstanding as a running back?

SPEAKER_06 7:06

Well, I I I like the fact that he can certainly uh make you miss, but he can also uh run to you. Uh he actually has honestly has got outstanding speed because he's able to break the long one and and and take it to the house. Uh so those things are all very, very impressive. But the main thing is he's been consistent. I mean, again, you you get five games or so where you're over 200 yards. You've had a fabulous, absolutely fabulous year. And he's done that. And he's been consistent all year long. So I I I think he's a very, very exciting one, but got a bright future ahead of him. And uh, you know, who knows? He may uh be the winner this year.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Right. High praise indeed coming from Archie Griffin. Of course, Travis Hunter of Colorado is also one of the favorites to win this year. What do you think of his accomplishments playing both ways in this age of college football?

SPEAKER_06 7:57

Well, uh, what he's done is is absolutely uh phenomenal. I mean, when you think of a person uh that uh goes both ways, and he's pretty much full-time uh both ways, and he's been outstanding on both sides of uh the ball. I mean, I think he could be all-American as a receiver and all-American as uh defensive back. I mean, he's just been absolutely phenomenal. Uh, he's one of those guys that are what I would say is in rare air, because not many people can do that. Uh very few uh will even attempt uh to do that. Uh and he's had a fabulous season, just unbelievable season. So I expect that uh, you know, it's it'll it'll be a good vote between uh Ashton and and Travis. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Did you ever uh play both ways, like early in your career, maybe in in high school or uh in uh pop warner?

SPEAKER_06 8:47

I played in in Little League football, yes, I played both ways. Uh in high school, I played a little bit both ways, not a whole lot. I mostly played offense. Again, what what Travis is doing is he's pretty much full-time both ways. I mean, I don't remember the number of snaps he's had uh all year long, but I know it's been a phenomenal number. And uh when you can do that and uh you're conditioned enough to be able to go both ways and be strong both ways, that's a rare error.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah, it seems like it seems like um as a receiver, uh having to, you know, your your muscles are the muscle memory of of running forward and side to side, and then and then the playing corner and the muscle memory of backpedaling, it's got to be a great strain on your on your on the physique, right?

SPEAKER_06 9:35

Well, it it it is probably a great strain on the physique, but uh I'm sure uh at Colorado they're they're certainly training him uh how to make the most out of doing uh those things and the type of exercises and conditioning uh that would allow him to be at his very, very best doing all those different things he's done because he's doing different things. I mean, uh the mindset he has to have is uh one of those phenomenal mindsets that says, hey, I gotta be here, ready to catch the ball, which is a good thing because sometimes you hear about defensive backs not being able to catch the ball, but that's not a problem with him because he's a wide receiver, so he's used to catching the ball. So, I mean, I think it's uh uh fabulous for him to have the opportunity to go both ways, first of all, uh, but to do it at the level that he's doing it, uh just uh almost unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Yeah, how do you think you would have fared if you played some corner back in those days?

SPEAKER_06 10:27

Uh if I'd have played some cornerback those days, I probably wouldn't have been as effective uh uh on offense the way uh that I was effective. So uh that's the uh the give and take of going both ways. Which one's gonna suffer? Yeah. And from looking at Travis, uh neither has suffered.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Was there anybody you played with either uh in college or in your NFL career that you thought, wow, there's a guy who could who could be like a Travis Hunter or play both ways, someone who's such a great athlete, uh so mentally tough, so well conditioned that can do that?

SPEAKER_06 11:00

Yeah, there's a couple people that you would think uh can do that, but you really don't know because they didn't do it. Yeah, you didn't really think about doing it uh uh during my time in in college uh or uh in pro. I know my younger brother Ray, uh he played uh running back uh for a period, and then he switched to defensive back, and then he came back to running back uh for a while uh at Ohio State. And but uh his main position was defensive back, and when everybody was healthy at uh uh uh at the running back position, he went back to defensive back. So I know there's people that can do it, but I don't know that there's a lot of people that can do it uh game after game after game, yeah, and do it even in one game.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah. Of course, the main reason we talked about the change this year uh in the gala is due to the new expanded 12-team playoff. What do you think of the playoff expanding and how do you like Ohio State's chances of winning it?

SPEAKER_06 11:59

Well, I I I like the fact uh that it has expanded and you're given more uh schools opportunities to to win uh a national championship. I I think that's a good thing uh for college football. I think everybody's excited uh about it, but regardless of how many teams get to go in, there's always gonna be somebody uh upset uh that they didn't uh make it in. And I'm sure uh it would be this year will be no exception. Uh but Ohio State's chances, I I I feel pretty good about uh Ohio State's chances. I think we've got uh an outstanding uh football team. We had a couple hiccups uh this year, uh, but I think that's gonna make uh the Ohio State team uh more excited about being in the playoffs, and I think it's gonna keep them more focused about uh uh winning these games in the playoffs because now it's one and done.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. Well, you were uh uh one of the great uh Ohio State teams in that great era, three straight Rolls Bulls, four straight rolls bowls, actually. Four straight four straight rolls bulls. Sorry. I corrected myself, I know my history. Um, and uh, you know, uh the back then I I looked at the rankings, December 2nd, 1974. And the 12 teams back then wouldn't have looked too far off from what today looks like. Uh Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio State, USC would have been the top four. And then you had Texas, Notre Dame, Penn State, Auburn, Nebraska, Baylor, Maryland, Miami of Ohio as the uh the not power five team. Looking back at the teams from that year, which team do you think would have fared best in a playoff like today if they had it back then? Oh, do you mean I mean you mean tough question, I know. Like look of all those teams that you made? Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe you don't remember how those teams were, but like just in you know, in your memory of like what teams do you think I guess maybe it's kind of the question is like what teams did you respect the most back then from that group that that probably would have been a tough out in a playoff setting.

SPEAKER_06 13:50

Well, uh to be honest with you, Chris, all those teams. Uh you know, because you talked about Oklahoma, they were a great team. Uh Southern Cal was always a great team because we played them uh all the time. Uh certainly uh uh what was it? You say Auburn, say some of those teams again.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Auburn, uh well, there was Alabama. There was Auburn, there was uh uh Notre Dame, Penn State, Notre Dame, Penn State.

SPEAKER_06 14:13

I mean, those were all great teams. So, you know, I I respect all those teams, and and in a tournament like that, uh uh great things can happen, and and you can be surprised. I mean, you mentioned uh Miami Bohoo. I remember Miami Bohale uh during that time, and and they were an awesome football team. Uh I I I really remember they had some great players uh on uh on that team, and and the Mac, uh, they were a very strong uh conference at that time.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, I meant to ask you when we were talking about uh Ohio State's couple hiccups this year. You know, in this age of NIL, you have a lot of players coming in and they're only in for one year. Being an offensive guy, and and you know, you were there for four years on your offense running those plays, you must have run those plays, the the off-tackle plays a thousand times under Coach Hayes. You know, you must have, you know, the lineman must have had every step down to the to the T, the detail, the level of detail you need to run the plays perfectly. But you get guys coming in uh maybe, maybe they come in in the fall or summer and they're playing, learning how to play together and they're learning the plays. Is it maybe the reason you see a hiccup like like we saw with Ohio State this year, uh be even though there's a tremendous amount of talent, is it harder when you have uh the talent, but maybe they haven't played together for very long and they haven't been in the system very long? Is that the challenge in this era to try to get these offenses, especially? Because offense is a little bit harder to learn. Right. Is it is that like the big challenge is getting the players who are just coming together for maybe one year to get them to play together to a certain level?

SPEAKER_06 15:55

I do think that that is a challenge, but the fact of the matter, football is football, and these young men uh they know the game of football, they're smart, uh, they can pick up uh things uh fairly quickly, uh and and and and they can get it done. I mean, that uh football is football. Football is blocking, tackling, uh running, uh uh passing. Um that that's that's what football is. And usually, you know, on different teams from an offensive standpoint, if you're a receiver, uh you're pretty much running the same route trees, you just gotta know the different terminologies, uh things of that sort. But it's always better uh to have uh a team that has played together uh for a long time. They know each other, they know what each other will do. Um that's always very, very uh helpful. However, uh these guys are smart, they they they know how to play the game of football, uh, they've trained, uh, they're in great condition, uh, and uh they can go out and play. It's just learning the new techno uh terminologies and things of that sort that uh uh is kind of uh can be confusing at times.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Yeah, we you know we talked about uh the transfer portal, uh, you know, and that topic there, and of course there's NIL and there's advancements in training and strategy and technology. How do you think all those changes that we've seen recently might have impacted your own career if they had been in place during your time?

SPEAKER_06 17:18

Well, you know, uh I don't know because my my my goal when I went to college was to get a college education. I mean, that was what I wanted. That's what uh the game of football did for me. Uh uh I come from a large family, six brothers and a sister, and and my parents couldn't afford to send everybody to college, but they wanted everybody to go to college. And we were able to do that through uh the game uh of football. And uh at least my brothers and I were able to do it through the game of football. And my sister, she she uh did it through track and field. Uh but that gave us the opportunity to get to education. So the main thing that we were gonna get was the education.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

Uh football really uh was uh secondary, uh, but the fact of the matter is we wanted to be the best that we could be, and I wanted to be the best that I could be playing at the Ohio State University. Ohio State University gave me uh a great opportunity uh to do all the things I want to do, get the education that I wanted as well as uh play the game of football. Now, with some of these other things that are in the game now, where NIL and things like that, well, that certainly uh would have been would have been helpful at the time. But I'm the type of person that, you know, I don't want to look back at uh what it would have been, what it could have been, uh, because it wasn't. Right. And uh so I I I just don't uh spend a lot of time thinking about what uh could have happened if NIL was there and uh all the other uh things was transferred portal. I certainly would not have transferred. I've had a uh I was on some great teams at the Ohio State University. Uh why would I want to go uh anywhere else when we were having such success there? So yeah, I I don't really think back at that because it just did not happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah. I guess uh if all those things were in place, you might have won a couple Heisman trophies, huh?

SPEAKER_06 19:10

Well, that's it that that that's hopefully that would be the same.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Not much, not much better you can get than what you did. So take us back to that day in 1974 when you won your first Heisman. What do you remember most about the moment when you found out it was you who was with you, and what was their reaction?

SPEAKER_06 19:28

Wow, you know, first of all, let me just uh tell you what back then um uh it was the day after our our Michigan game uh that uh we got a call from the downtown athletic club uh telling me that I needed to be uh in New York uh uh the next day, uh which would have been uh Tuesday, yeah, and that they were gonna make the announcement uh of the Heisman Trophy winner. Now at that time, uh they gave me the impression that there was gonna be me and a couple others there, and they were gonna make uh the announcement. Tricky. Well, I got on the I got got on the plane, got to New York, got to the downtown athletic club, and uh found out that it was only me there. And and they made the announcement that I won the Heisman Trophy. And as you can imagine, uh I was uh very, very uh excited. Uh certainly uh uh to win an award like that is is was was phenomenal. Uh but I'm the one that would always go back to tell you that I was very fortunate because I was on uh a great team at the Ohio State University that made me look good enough uh to win uh a Heisman Trophy. But it was it was truly exciting exciting. Uh certainly uh was surprised that I was the only one there uh when they made the announcement, had a little press conference when we got there. Uh then the next Monday, the next Monday uh was when all the festivities uh took place. The dinner, uh the whole works, and my family all came to New York, and and uh we had a great time uh in New York uh celebrating uh the uh winning of the uh 1974 uh Heisman Trophy. I mean it was uh it was very, very emotional uh for me. Uh just uh, you know, it was my first time in New York. Uh our whole family was there, and uh remember looking out uh into the audience and and uh tears just came to my eyes. I just started uh crying because could not believe that it was me in this situation and then seeing all my family there, knowing that uh they were extremely proud uh to be there with me. Uh I mean it was phenomenal. It was phenomenal. I mean that's that's the best way that I can uh explain it. It was truly uh outstanding, great for me, great for my family, great for my my teammates and coaches. I remember I had uh uh my high school coach even came, uh, and uh certainly my family and some teammates and and uh coaches. Uh it was just something that uh, you know, that that that you dream about.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Must have been an amazing. Celebration, to be sure. If you can go back and speak to the young Archie Griffin accepting that award in 1974, what would you tell him about what lies ahead for you?

SPEAKER_06 22:11

Oh wow. Well, I I I would tell him after having done it, you know, I would tell him that your life changes. Uh your name is no longer uh just Archie Griffin. Uh your name is uh Heisman Trophy winner, Archie Griffin. And then after that second one, I would tell him that your name is two time Heisman Trophy winner, Archie Griffin, because that's what happened. The Heisman Trophy uh changes uh uh your life. Uh again, you're not known as what your real name is, but people always put in front of your name Heisman Trophy winner. Yeah, that's the impact that that award has uh on uh individuals uh who win it. Yeah and it's uh it's it's it's remarkable, uh it's uh special, uh, and uh I know every Heisman Trophy winner that uh uh wins that award greatly appreciates it.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Yeah. You mentioned your family members being there. Were there particular lessons from your parents or your family members that have stayed with you over the years, perhaps even influencing you how you uh approach leadership or challenges on the field? Sure.

SPEAKER_06 23:24

When when when uh I was coming up, uh uh my parents were were big big inspirers in my life. Uh you know uh they had uh things that they would like us to follow. And that first one was to always trust in God. Uh the second thing was uh for us to get an education, a college education, and the third was for us to participate in sports. And they wanted to trust God first because they always said if God's in control of your life, he can help you in any situation that you might find yourself in. And I wholeheartedly believe that. And again, secondly, they wanted to have that college education because that was something they didn't get. And their dream was for all eight of their kids uh to graduate from college. And then that third was for all of us to participate in athletics, and they wanted us to participate in sports because uh sports kind of rounds a person out to teach you a lot of uh lifelong lessons and values uh to live by. Uh, and so those were the priorities that they had for us, and I've tried uh to live uh by those priorities, and and uh and I I feel like I've done pretty well with that for the most part, and uh it's been a good thing for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah. Uh, you know, you've been to so many uh galas over the year, met so many winners, both when you first uh won the awards, uh the the old guys that were there at the time through the years. Are there any moments from all these events or interactions with other winners that you cherish or that you were that were that were particularly meaningful to you?

SPEAKER_06 24:53

Well, every year uh is meaningful, Chris. I mean, you know, just to get back together and laugh and tell stories and tell lies and all those kind of things that that we do when we get there. Yeah. It's a blast. I mean, it it truly is. It's a lot of fun. And that's what I look forward to uh when I go back, seeing these guys and and seeing the new guys come in and the younger guys uh uh come back uh for uh the occasion. Uh those those those those things uh are great memories uh to have and give you something to look forward to uh each and every year. And uh to me, you know, that's that's what it's about. It's a fraternity, as people say all the time. It's a fraternity. And uh and we love each other, we enjoy being around each other, and it's a great time uh to get together.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Uh of course, next year you're gonna be honored for the 50th anniversary of your second Heisman, uh, making history all the time, the first man to be remembered twice. Um you're of course gonna give a speech this year. Have you thought about the problem of needing to leave some material for next year too? Like how are you gonna divide that up?

SPEAKER_06 26:02

Well, uh we'll take it as it goes. Uh I'm gonna take care of this year first, and we'll worry about uh next year, uh, next year. But uh uh again, I look forward to it. It's it's it's uh been exciting. This whole year, uh Chris, has been exciting. Uh this 50th year. The Ohio State University, they've uh uh done a phenomenal job of uh celebrating uh my uh 50th uh anniversary of winning the uh the first uh Heisman trophy. Uh got the opportunity to dot the eye with the uh uh world-famous Ohio State uh marching band uh to Biddle. Amazing. The best damn band in the land. And that was that's something that uh uh not many people get the opportunity to do. Uh I know that uh John Glenn uh did it, Bob Hope did it, uh Coach Woody Hayes did it. And I had that opportunity to do that. That was very, very special. Yeah. I had the opportunity to go out to Pasadena uh this year uh to the Rose Bowl, uh where they dedicated the uh the Heisman Legends Walk, where they're honoring all the Heisman Trophy winners that uh played uh in the Rose Bowl. And me having played four times, they gave uh the uh made a statue of me. And I was able to bring my family out there to dedicate the Heisman Legends Walk and that statue. I mean, it was absolutely phenomenal. And then two weeks later after that, uh I came back to Ohio State, back here to Columbus, Ohio, and and uh uh the Ohio State University uh put a replica statue at the Ohio Stadium. And that was just a phenomenal feeling because I'm from Columbus, Ohio, and this happened right in my hometown. And uh, you know, it just it couldn't get any better than that for uh a guy from Columbus, Ohio who went to the Ohio State University. I I can't believe it. Is that was that the first time that you dotted the eye? I that was the first time that I dotted the eye at official Ohio State uh football game, and that's when it really, really counts. Oh my gosh, what I mean I've dotted the eye on on other occasions, uh, but not at an Ohio State uh football game. And and that's the official dotting of the eye.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Right. Well, it's about time they they that you were able to do that. And I gotta understand what took them so long.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

So you should be doing it, you should be doing it every game. Well, Chris, I don't care how long it took them, they did it. And uh I'm very, very proud of it. And uh it was a wonderful, wonderful feeling to dot the eye in front of those 106 or 7,000 fans uh that were at Ohio Stadium that day at the Akron football game.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

I can only imagine how that must have felt. Well, Archie Griffin, congratulations again on the 50th anniversary of your first Heisman Trophy. Uh we'll see you in New York City. Looking forward to uh to uh hanging out uh with uh everyone there, and uh we appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

Well, thanks, we appreciate you having me here. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Thank you.com and click on the charities link at the top of the site.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

This is Archie Griffin, 1974, 1975's Heisman Trophy winner, and you're listening to the official Heisman podcast.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

We're here with the one and only Neil Everett, the man, the myth, the legend, the way of life, friend of the Heisman Trophy. He uh he will be uh working the Heisman again this year, uh doing the private Heisman welcome reception on Friday night. And the Heisman Legends brunch, which is starting this year, he'll be doing the pre-reception for that. Neil, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

Thank you. Hey, listen, I'm glad to be invited back to the show because that means I've been invited back to the Heisman.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Definitely. We uh we had you on the show last year around this time, had a great time uh at the Heisman itself again. And uh the last year was the last year, as far as we know, uh, of the uh original Heisman Dinner Gala. They're going to this uh uh brunch uh kind of uh event. Uh, what do you think about this switch and what do you anticipate it's gonna be like?

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Well, I think it's gonna be really interesting. I think it'll be fun. It'll probably be a little um um more laid back, I think, than the dinner. Um uh uh it'll be festive. It's gonna be interesting. And for the folks out there wondering why they're doing it, it's because so many of these athletes are involved uh, you know, in uh in in games still, and especially the ones that are in the brackets and the you know how coaches are. It's like, hey, you can't be gone Sunday night. We need you back, uh, we need you back here Sunday for practice or Sunday afternoon. There's just, you know, that that's the landscape has changed, and so Heisman has changed with it. And I think it's a marvelous idea, and I'm looking forward to to checking it out, and I'm I'm honored to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, kind of squeezing the traditional Heisman festivities. They've kind of been squeezed down over the years. Used to be the Monday night gala, and it was Sunday night, and now we're to the Sunday brunch. Of course, brunch is a great thing in Manhattan. Do you have a favorite Manhattan brunch spot besides the Marriott Marquee?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Oh, you know what? I don't get to New York often enough to be able to be able to know anything. You know, I I I know any place that's got Guinness on tap, I'm kind of uh I kind of lean that way, but uh that's kind of my brunch. But uh I I know it'll be great. It's a great hotel, great staff, and they did a beautiful job last year, and I'm sure they will again this year.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

For you listeners out there, my recommendation is Bubbies and Tribeca, always a great spot for brunch. Okay, this is also the 50th anniversary of Archie Griffin's first Heisman Trophy, uh, the 25th anniversary of Ron Dane's Heisman Trophy in 1999, and the 10th anniversary of someone near and dear to your heart, Marcus Mariota from the University of Oregon. I wanted to ask you about uh how's it feel as an Oregon fan? Uh, not only seeing uh Marcus being honored, of course he won't be there. He's got prior commitments, uh, but also Dylan Gabriel for the second straight year uh uh uh Heisman finalist from Oregon.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah, I'm I'm disappointed Marcus won't be there. I I I thought he might be able to squeeze it in given how close DC is to uh, but I didn't really looked at the DC is the New York City, but I hadn't looked at the schedule. I'm glad he's not gonna be there because it means he's still in the league and he's still viable in that regard. But uh uh he's such a good dude. I always love running into him. And one of my favorite Mariota stories is uh we were doing the Heisman House commercials where they use the big house uh that that you see in the the the fans see when they see all the commercials where they bring in you know Jaden Daniels and make him be the you know pledge initiate and all that. And so it was it was me, Marcus, and the Oregon duck, and and and we're doing the Oregon fight song, and I'm playing a uh uh ukulele, and I don't know how to play an ukulele, but I'm pretending like I do, and we're singing the Oregon fight song, and uh Marcus, you know, is you know, Marcus isn't that you know verbal, uh, but he know you know he knew all the words. I didn't know all the words, but I'm very you know, I'll start acting like I do if we have a visitor. Um and um so we do this thing, and then the the idea was they were gonna get a real ukulele player and then show his fingers working it, you know, cut away to it. So it looked like my fingers while we're doing that. And uh it it never made it never made air because uh I think Marcus's agent thought that Marcus didn't shed Marcus in a good light, which is come on, it was funny. Yeah, uh, but to your point, uh, you know, listen, Bo Nick's last year, Dylan Gabriel this year, Dylan Gabriel, Chris, a great little story is when I lived in Hawaii from 85 to 2000, I covered the University of Hawaii. Well, uh, the year that Ty Detmer won the Heisman, BYU was playing Hawaii that night. So Detmer was not in New York, he had to be anointed via satellite, right? And I was standing right by him because I'm the little local television reporter and I'm getting ready to interview him. So I interviewed Ty Detmer, and BYU owned Hawaii, owned him, and that's their big rival, the big Polynesian rivalry was between BYU and Hawaii. And that night, led by Garrett Gabriel, Dylan Gabriel's dad, Hawaii punched BYU in the mouth and beat him for Lavelle Edwards and Ty Detmer and the Heisman for the first time in forever. So there's a lot of great, great local connections uh between Hawaii and the Heisman with the quarterbacks. And I wish Dylan Gabriel well, he's the the best player on the best team, and that'll you know that should serve him well come voting time. But there's you know, there's four great nominees.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

You know, I didn't know you were up uh covering Hawaii up until 2000. You know, I was at the Hawaii USC game in 1999, the first game of the June Jones era. I don't know if you were at that one. Yeah, I was there too.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

100%. We got beat 66 to 3, I think.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Yeah, it was crazy pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

And then June Jones damn near ran the table. I think he lost one more game and made that wasn't the year he went to the uh sugar bowl, but the uh I don't believe.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

No, I think they're it was the great it was the greatest turnaround in uh NCAA history because they were winless the year before, and I think they went nine and three or nine and four by the end by the next year.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yeah, and then I think the next year or the year after that with Colt Brennan, they winded up going to the Sugar Bowl. When you really put that in perspective, that's one of the great coaching jobs of all time for a team of Hawaii stature or lack of stature, yeah, so to speak, to make it to the one of the you know, the one of the top four bowl games before the BCS and all that, although Matthew Stafford and George slapped us around a little bit when we got there, but still to reach that, reach Atlanta was something special.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, that was an incredible accomplishment. Um question I have a little bit, a little bit, I don't know. I've been thinking about this. I've been asking people who come on the show in this day and age of the transfer transfer portal, you're an Oregon fan, right? And the Ducks are number one and they've got a shot at the national title, and they've got to win four games or three games. And do you think if the Ducks win, it will feel as good as it would have had they won in 2010?

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Right?

SPEAKER_03 36:58

No, I you know, I think I I think the I think the game was a little simpler then in 2010. Uh the um the ducks were the little train that could back then. They had Chip Kelly, nobody really knew who he was. He was bringing all this all this innovative uh offensive stuff. Uh, you know, it was little Eugene. It's not little Eugene anymore, it's big Eugene now. And yeah, and you know, you you know, you know, we bulked up. Oregon has bulked up to play with the big big boys. And uh I don't I you know, listen, it's gonna feel great if it happens. And it's a it's a heck of a testament to Coach Lanning and his staff and the and those players because I think it's to your to your question, I don't think it I think it's gonna be more meaningful perhaps now because the odds are greater against, you know, I I don't know if the odds are greater against, but the the the way the landscape has changed. So I think 2010 would have been uh would have been like wow. And I think uh this year it would be like hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Right. Well, you know, we've now gone through a full a full year of conference realignment, another, another year of the portal, first year of the 12 team playoff. We haven't finished the playoff, obviously, but how would you assess you know how the sport has absorbed these chaotic changes that are frankly, I think a bit disorienting to the to the average fan?

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Well, you know, I you know, I just think it's it's a sign of the times. It's like what we open this conversation talking about, hey, we don't have, you know, it used to have they used to have the Monday gala, and now then they had the dinner, and now they have the brunch, and it's doesn't it doesn't diminish the Heisman. Yeah, you know, it's you know, and it's just it's the Heisman reacting, it's the Heisman calling an audible because the playing field has changed and the playing field has changed for the for the players, and and and you know, and it probably probably some of that should have happened a while back and it wouldn't have been so drastic. And you know, you went you went from zero to to to a hundred instead of you know instead of incrementally uh including these players more and uh giving them more uh agency over the over the sport that they were participating in and what they were bringing to the university. So I it is what it is, and it's you know, it's it's you you can if you spend all your time looking in the rearview mirror, you're gonna run into something in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Great point. Great point. Do you have a favorite? Obviously, you you you're rooting for Oregon to win in this playoff, but do you think uh, you know, they maybe they're I think they are the favorite for the to win the playoff, but who do you think is uh sort of either your number two choice to who you think might be the biggest threat to Oregon or who you think might be a dark horse that no one's talking about?

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Well, I don't think George is a dark horse, but I think Georgia's, I mean, you know, they've been there, they've done that, they they, you know, they they they punched Oregon in the mouth not that long ago. Um so uh, you know, I think Oregon, listen, all uh Georgia, I think is a you know, I think all, you know, if to be one of the 12, you know, I don't know anything about SMU, but I certainly wouldn't look past SMU. Boise State, uh the Boise State gave Oregon, I mean Boise State had that game in hand against Oregon early in the season. Ohio State's got something to prove, uh, not just to Oregon, but to everybody after all the abuse they took after the Michigan loss. So there's a lot of good football teams out there still, and uh, you know, there's 12 of them. I wouldn't I wouldn't look past Dabo. Right. You know, so you'll get some of that dabbo magic going. That's who knows.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

Yeah. And then uh finally, what do you think about you've talked about Dylan Gabriel, about the other three Heisman finalists, Travis Hunter, Ash and Genty, uh, Cam Ward. Uh what's been your impression of those of those guys this year?

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Well, I'll start with Genty, because I watched him when he, you know, so uh I he's probably the least known of the four, and probably should be one of the best known because he's unbelievable with the and especially the way the running back has been quote unquote devalued over the years. So Genty is the the the yards that he put up, and and I saw him run against Oregon, so I don't want to hear it was against uh you know lesser competition. Yeah, uh, you know, whether you're San Diego State or Oregon State or Oregon or you know, who whomever, these these guys lace it up and they they're out there, they're hitting. So he's he's been a fabulous runner. His highlights are worth looking up. Cam Ward, I followed him at Washington State. The Pullman was sick to see him go. Uh, you know, he's an offensive machine, and had had they not stubbed their toe against Syracuse, they'd be one of the 12 teams, and he'd and we'd be talking about him in a different light because he'd still be on the you know on the big stage. Yeah. And then you got the the the kid in Colorado. I mean, what he's doing is unheard of, uh, you know, uh going both ways and and not just not just playing both ways, but making a difference. Pick sixes, uh catches for touchdown. Uh I mean, he's fabulous. And you know, and he's got Dion behind him, and so that gives him the extra little extra flair. He's always got a big smile on his face. I love hearing him being interviewed, and he's just like a he's he looks like a kid in a candy shop. And then you got Dylan Gabriel, who's like he's the old man of the group, and you know, he's we've taken more snaps than anybody or played more games than anybody. And I think he came to Oregon for for a shot to win the Heisman, and that's what he's got, and that's all you can ask for, is to be invited Saturday to New York City. And I I I I can't wait because it's you know, I I I you know, the I I I think I know who the favorite is, but I it wouldn't shock me if any of those four won.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Right. Uh, you know, speaking of uh Oregon quarterbacks, is are there any more quarterbacks with 60 uh career starts that Oregon can bring in next year? They've done it two years in a row.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

If they're out there, we're working on them.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

The two most experienced quarterbacks of all time in college football, both played for the Ducks, both Heisman finalists. Neil Levert, thanks for coming on the show again. Appreciate it. Look forward to seeing your magic at work in New York City. And, you know, hope you have a great time with all the finalists and everyone else there.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Absolutely. Love being part of the Heisman family.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Thanks, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

This is Ron Dane, 1999 Heisman Trophy winner, and you're listening to the Heisman Trophy podcast.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Corey McCartney is an Atlanta-based writer, now covering baseball, but also a longtime Heisman commentator for Sports Illustrated back when it was still illustrating things, and who was about as knowledgeable on the subject as they come for good reason. He is the author of the book of called The Heisman Trophy The Story of an American Icon and Its Winners. One of the best books about the Heisman you will read. I think I remember I blurbed that one back in the day. Available on Amazon. Be sure to get it. Corey, thanks for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_08 43:56

Yeah, absolutely, Chris. Yeah, you were one of the guys kind enough to to give. Give me a little review on that. So I appreciate it. We go way back in this process and uh excited to see another Heisman vote come to an end. It's I it's always a little bittersweet, and we are up against it.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah, you know, I think I always looked around at the Heisman commentary uh universe, and I always thought that you were kind of a kindred spirit uh with me along the way because I always thought people talked about the Heisman and never really focused on the right things. Um liked about your perspective is that you understand that what really matters when it comes to picking the winner is what Heisman voters think and really nothing else, you know? And the fact that some people mistake uh what should be for how things actually are. And yet every year there's always outrage, usually directed at the Heisman, for why a player doesn't make it to New York. So why is this process such a mystery to people when it's really just a simple election?

SPEAKER_08 44:53

Yeah, I I mean I think there's there's certainly the end of it where you're tying things all the way back to Jay Burwanger and you're picking out your guys along the way, you know, whether it's Bo Jackson, Archie Griffin, and you're trying to tie somebody in this new era all the way back to those names and say, okay, well, who's really deserving of being part of this long legacy of this award? I think there's one way to look at it. I think the other one is a popularity contest. And I think, you know, we've seen over the years sometimes media can get behind somebody that maybe elevates them in a way, then you look at the way the voting came out and say, well, wait a minute, that's not what I heard for the last couple of months about this particular candidate. So I think it can be really frustrating for some people to look at it uh outside from that end. I've always approached it from the end of here's what history tells us is likely to happen, but that's not necessarily illustrate how I'm going to vote.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Right. And of course, you know, uh when you look at the historical trends, you can kind of get a sense for what matters to Heisman voters. You've been away from the Heisman for a bit covering baseball. And in the interim, there's been a lot of changes in college football. So I'm curious how your perspective on the award has changed, if at all.

SPEAKER_08 46:02

No, not really. I mean, I think there's certainly some things that have changed for the award itself in the landscape of college football that I think are really interesting this year in particular. I mean, obviously you go back a couple years and you know, we used to kind of look at the number of finalists and say, okay, well, what does that tell me about the vote? If there's three guys, if there's four, five, six, what does that tell me about the way that the vote's gonna be spread out? What does it tell me about that natural break in voting that we always used to use as that you know precursor to how many guys were actually gonna be in New York? That's no longer at play because we're set with four guys. Then there's the aspect of realignment, and so many of these guys, now we used to say, okay, well, this guy plays in this part of the country. So those voters are probably gonna lean that way. So many of these guys that we're talking about as finalists now play in conferences that quite literally stretch across the country. So I think there's all these things that we kind of used to use as the foundation pieces for how we kind of you know viewed this this awards process and can started to you know prognosticate on it that are really no longer at play.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Yeah. The the sport is very tumultuous right now, like you mentioned, uh conference realignment, uh, NIL, the transfer portal, everything kind of chaotic. Is does the Heisman sort of is it in a position to be a bit of a uh bulwark against this chaos and kind of uh own its tradition and and and sort of uh be uh something for college football fans to latch onto if they're if they're confused by everything going on?

SPEAKER_08 47:30

I think so. And I think it it you know a lot of that is tied into the end that they will not go beyond the the regular season. You know, there's been steadfast, you know, that we are not going to you know consider anything that happens beyond the regular season games. And I think the fact that we have seen you know us go from you know a BCS situation where it was one-two to a 14 playoff and now a 12-team playoff, and you're still having this approach that, you know what, we only take into consideration what happens during the regular season. I think if you are someone who you know it wants to to tie into tradition and wants the and kind of you know pines for the yesteryear of college football and what it's been for decades beyond what we've seen the past couple years, the Heisman is an institution that is is staying within those bounds.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Yeah. Well, one of the things I've noticed this year, and I don't know if it's because of the 12-team playoff, seems like anecdotally, this seems like there's less Heisman discussion in the media this year. It seems like the playoff has kind of sucked up a lot of that energy. And and I kind of worry that the Heisman uh ceremony and the week, just being one week ahead of the first round of the playoff, will kind of get sucked into that vortex of uh playoff discussion. How how can the Heisman differentiate itself and kind of you know stay, you know, kind of emerge from that discussion and and and get more uh attention as we go along?

SPEAKER_08 48:53

Yeah, that's interesting, right? I mean, I think there's certainly the end of it from so for the longest time, and I'm not saying that as Heisman voters that we're a slave to, you know, as a certain kind of candidate, but I think for a long time it f people looked at it and said, okay, you're gonna it's gonna it's gonna go to the you know the quarterback who's on the number one team in the country. And if that was the case, then Dylan Gabriel would be getting a vote ready this weekend. But I think it's it's the the real position of Heisman voters now, go with the best player. And I think I can I have two teenage sons, I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old. They have been Travis Hunter obsessed for months now. And the fact that we're going into this weekend talking about this dynamic playmaker who is the odds-on favorite to walk away with the trophy on Saturday, I think it is the Heisman differentiating himself from the the uh the playoff process in those teams. So uh obviously there's gonna be years where the the guy who's the favorite is going to be playing in this 12-team playoff, but the fact that we have so much focus on a dynamic playmaker, a transcendent player like Travis Hunter, and you've got teenage boys that are, you know, pining to be able to see this guy potentially on Saturday walk away with this award, uh I think really speaks to the position of the Heisman right now.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Do you think uh your sons uh being into the Heisman is representative of that age group? I know you know they know dad's in a Heisman guy, or were they into the Heisman because of you, or do you think that they just kind of follow it anyway?

SPEAKER_08 50:18

I think both, and I think it's also uh the fact that NCAA football is back on the the platforms that they play video games on. So, you know, they're doing their dynasties, they're trying to win the Heisman on the game, they're trying to, you know, create a player and have him go through the process and win the award. So I think that kind of ties into it too, right? It's like we didn't have that when we were kids, but you know, certainly, you know, now that you can kind of go through that yourself and then watch it happen uh unfold on television, I think that that's only going to help the award kind of, I think, get back to at least when we were kids, when it felt like these guys were, you know, these larger-than-life figures.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Uh, yeah. And of course, nostalgia is one of those things that, you know, and nostalgia is kind of a hell of a drug, right? We think back at these at these guys that were like, those, those guys were the greatest, the guys now aren't good, and in 10 years we'll look back on these guys and and and they'll be venerable by by comparison to the current guys. Uh, you talked a lot about in your book about Heisman campaigns. And I, you know, every year there's a story about Heisman campaigns written somewhere by someone in the media, and it's always some variation along the lines of they don't really work, or the implication is that they don't work, or that uh, you know, when you talk to sports information directors, they there's like this unwritten code that they can't say that that they work. They have to sort of like be coy about it and say, well, you know, you know, we don't really matter, it's what the player does in the field, or all that really matters is is you know uh who's what team is doing the best, and team success creates the individual success and all that kind of stuff. But uh corporations spend billions of dollars on marketing for a reason, it tends to work. Um, I didn't see a lot of campaigning this year for the Heisman, and and obviously someone's gotta win it, so you can argue that uh the lack of campaigns doesn't mean there won't be a Heisman winner. But do you think that um in this day and age uh that those kind of campaigns are are effective still?

SPEAKER_08 52:14

I think they certainly had their place. I mean, I I still remember coming home one day from work and there was a package on my front porch and I picked it up and I was like, God, this thing feels like it's got weights in it, and let alone I open it up and it's Dan Pursa uh in the the two seven-pound purple weights that Northwestern sent out that year. So, you know, there's always gonna be, yeah, there's always gonna be uh points like that where something really stands out. I remember getting the the Ed Oliver uh bobblehead as well with him on the horse and all that kind of stuff. I mean, those are great, but I mean we say there's no campaign this year, but you had the most polarizing and most popular coach in college football, Deion Sanders, on stage, constantly talking about how great Travis Hunter is and a travesty, you know, that he wasn't a finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award. I think you had, and the fact that Colorado spent so much money on their social media platforms and uh them producing content, I I think there was there was a campaign at play. I just don't think it was traditionally the way that we think about pushing a guy for the award.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah, I was never into uh the things like the bobbleheads, although I still think they have their effectiveness. But to me, the most effective uh Heisman uh campaign was just the the reporter's notebook with the little the little picture on the back because those guys are the guys who were voting, and those are the people taking, you know, when you're a reporter going to covering uh covering the beat, and you're grabbing that notebook and putting in your back pocket, and every time you open it up, you're seeing that player. I've always thought that those were just understated but effective uh campaigns, and so I don't really see a whole lot of those anymore. But going back uh to uh history of campaigns, which you covered a lot in your book, what do you think were some of the more interesting campaigns that stood out besides the the Pursa uh weightlifting, of course, which uh was a great doorstop for years?

SPEAKER_08 53:54

Yeah, I mean the the tie detmer tie, you know, I think that that was a great one. Uh you think about that one. Um Orlando Pace when they had the uh the pancake uh magnets growing up in in uh Ohio close to Columbus, uh definitely wanted to get my hands on on one of those. But I think those are the ones that to me, and obviously you mentioned with the the Pursa one there, um, I got a lot of notebooks. I remember getting tons of um think about uh Jordan Love uh when they had the uh the uh little heart candies uh for uh Valentine's Day that they had sent out with a notebook for him. So I think those were some of the ones that really uh stood out to me. But um, it's so funny that it just initially goes back to something as so simple as just sending out notes on a Sunday. That was the very first campaign uh that we saw with uh you know with Baker in Oregon State that long ago. Uh, to think it was something so simple that now would be so rudimentary when we think about how you push a candidate.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah, and of course, back then you couldn't see all the candidates because the people weren't on TV, so you needed the information. And now there's almost too much information, right? So it's really about how do you corral the information into the proper narrative. And it seems to me, someone like Travis Hunter, you know, he has a killer narrative, right? He's a two-way player, and it seems like, you know, who knows who's going to win the Heisman, but he seems like the favorite. Uh, but Ashton Gente had um uh an incredible year as well. But it's almost like in order to overcome that very unique uh thing about Travis Hunter, he would have had to uh really break some records. You think that's kind of a fair look at it?

SPEAKER_08 55:31

Yeah, and I mean look, they're they're in this in the college football playoff because of Ashton Gente, right? If he doesn't have a season that rivals Barry Sanders, and I can't believe we're you know we're talking about that being a reality, uh they're not playing uh in this newfound version of the postseason. But um, yeah, it was going to take something monumental. And and I I've long, you know, and I'm sure you uh might agree with this as well, maybe off the record, that uh a player from outside the power structure is probably not going to win this award. And I think the more that we've taken things and built these power conferences, I think it's that much more daunting for a guy to be able to do that. But I mean, think about it. We have not had a player from outside the power structure finish runner-up since Marshall Falk in 1992. There's a very strong reality that Ashton Genty's going to do exactly that on Saturday. He may not walk away with an award, but I mean, you think about how long it's been since Ty Detmer and Andre Ware in 8990. There has not been a guy like this. And we're talking about it uh happening potentially this weekend. I think that's a a testament to what Genty's been able to accomplish this year.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Yeah, and also a testament to uh what Boise State has done over the years. I think that he doesn't get the same kind of run uh at the Heisman if Boise State hadn't laid the groundwork of building that respect for the program over the years. It's like it it comes to fruition in weird ways down the road where you're, you know. Um the question I have now is like, you know, for the last, let's say since 2007, uh starting with Tim Tebow, we've been in the spread quarterback era for the Heisman Trophy, right? The spread quarterbacks have pretty much dominated, not only in the Heisman Trophy race, but in college football in general. We're seeing we saw this huge explosion at offensive numbers. The average Heisman trophy winning quarterback since Tim Tebow has averaged you know at least 4,000 yards of offense, 43 total touchdowns. It almost seems like this was has become the minimum threshold for Heisman consideration. You can go look at every one of the quarterbacks who are either finalists or who won the award, and it's like they're you know, they've gotten above that threshold. Um, but it also seems to me that the inclusion of people like uh Hunter and uh Genty in this year's race being kind of the two main candidates, it could be a harbinger of sorts. Uh, that perhaps the era of the spread quarterback has while it hasn't run its course, maybe it's plateaued a bit because it does seem like um there's less uh offense in college football this year. There's not really any truly elite offenses, and maybe that's because of the portal and the difficulty with getting players up to speed, you know, when you have them for one year. Uh, do you think that we might be seeing uh more of a free-for-all position-wise when it comes to the Heisman, kind of like how we saw in the 80s and early 90s?

SPEAKER_08 58:17

I hope so. I mean, I think it certainly adds a lot more interest when you when it's not uh just going to you know everyone's perception that it's just gonna go to the quarterback for the number one team. I mean, Dylan Gabriel, you know, talk about those kind of threshold numbers. He didn't have those numbers, but if he had had those numbers, if you're if he's going, you know, north of 4,200 yards in those 40 touchdowns that those quarterbacks have averaged uh the last 12 quarterbacks, are we then talking about no, you know what, it's it's gonna be Dylan Gabriel, but he didn't have those numbers. The guy who did, who's another finalist, Cam Ward, is playing in the Pop Tarts bowl. And no offense, Pop Tarts Bowl is awesome. And I hope Cam Ward jumps out of the toaster at the end of the game as the MVP. But 4,100 yards, 36 passing TDs, 40 total touchdowns, those are the numbers, but he didn't have the season. Uh you know, it's a in a season where everything's revolving around the college football playoff, but you had a guy who was incredibly dynamic who is probably going to be the one that walks away with it.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

And then one other exotic uh feature of this year's finalists is like you look through the four guys. Travis Hunter obviously was was an elite recruit, highly uh highly respected coming out of high school, but he went to the FCS. So you have a guy who started in the FCS, you have Cam Ward, who started at the FCS in at Incarnate Word in Texas before he went to Washington State. Uh and you have Dylan Gabriel, who wasn't exactly, you know, everyone's all American coming out of high school either. And then Ashton Genty, uh who who is not who wasn't like, you know, a five-star recruit or wasn't considered an elite recruit. It's almost like this uh democratization of the process in the sense that people are coming from all kinds of different origins now to challenge for the Heisman.

SPEAKER_08 59:54

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna call it the island of misfit toys or anything like that, but everybody did kind of have their, you know, their interesting pass to get here. And I think, you know, I'm honestly, you know, and you and I are people that have done uh dove a lot into the numbers and you know, over the years and you know, the margins of victory and all that kind of stuff. And I think to me, the big thing with Travis Hunter, the other part of it, is that he followed his coach to Colorado. And you know, the fact that you have that dynamic and how somewhat polarizing his coach can be, I I'm really interested to see what the numbers are going to look like. Some great stories, uh, but I'm always that's that's always the first thing I'm looking at is after the award, okay, where does this rank historically? What do these numbers tell us? Uh I can't wait to see this unfold.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

And then what is your prediction for how the vote will unfold between uh those four uh finalists that we announced uh this coming this past Monday?

SPEAKER_08 1:00:48

Yeah, I mean, look, I I think you know, you're Travis Hunter's gonna walk away with this thing. I think he's gonna be followed by Ashton Genty, Dylan Gabriel, and Cam Ward a distant fourth. Um, I, you know, I think what's really interesting, and when I talked about this before, is the fact that you have these conferences now that are so spread out across the country. Travis Hunter's going from the far west, South Mess, Widwest, Mid-Atlantic, South. The only conference he uh bring he doesn't have a team in his conference in is in the Northeast. Uh I think he's gonna win this thing by north of like a probably around a thousand points, maybe get 675 or so first place votes. Uh, I'm not gonna go out on limb here because there have not, uh there's been some really narrow wins for non-QBs in the last 23 years. But I think this is going to be the biggest margin of victory for a non-quarterback since Ron Dane in 1999.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Very interesting. You know, that's actually you brought up a great point in that answer, which is that the regionalism of the Heisman seems to be muted now because Dylan Gabriel plays with the Big Ten, like you said, goes from coast to coast. Um, Cam Ward is in the ACC, which has has its members on the West Coast. And um, and then, you know, uh Ashton Genty plays in the Mountain West, but but you know, he's on obviously on TV a lot. Uh, and then um Travis Hunter and the Big 12, again, uh, you know, these are schools that are just all over the place. And he plays against UCF, right? So uh pretty pretty amazing stuff. Um the book is the Heisman Trophy, the story of an American icon and its winners. Really a great book, comprehensive book, I think, on a perspective of the Heisman, which is um not typical and and very informative. And so if anybody out there is interested uh in the Heisman Trophy, I I recommend uh picking up this book. Uh it may be a great Christmas gift uh for uh for dropping off to uh to your own island of misfit toys. So um Corey, thanks for coming on the show and uh hopefully we'll see you down the road. All right, Chris. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, that's gonna do it for episode 17 of season two of the official Heisman Trophy Podcast. Next week, we will be talking to the 2024 Heisman Trophy winner as our featured guest. And before that, another special bonus pod featuring the four Heisman Trophy finalists on Saturday, the day of the 90th Heisman Trophy ceremony. See you then. The official Heisman Trophy podcast streams every Wednesday during the college football season and is hosted, co-produced, edited, and engineered by Chris Houston. Paul Goldberg is the executive producer and editor. Special shout out to Isaac Lohencron, and big thanks to the Heisman Trophy Trust and its executive director, Rob Whalen, and associate director Tim Henning. The official Heisman Trophy Podcast can be found on Spotify, Apple Music, and anywhere you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also find clips of our show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. Just go to Heisman Trophy.