SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Houston. Well, week one of college football is in the books, and what an exciting weekend it was. Everything from Michigan's uh Hail Mary win over Western Michigan, all the way to Miami's dominance over Stanford. Lots of great performances all across the spectrum of college football, from great quarterbacking to great receiving to great running backs. Uh just really an outstanding weekend to start off the 2026 football season. And we're gonna start off this episode with uh one of those great performers, Braxton Woodson, the quarterback for Navy, the new quarterback for Navy, 200 yards rushing, one of only two players in college football to have 200 yards rushing this last weekend, and he's a quarterback. We're also gonna talk to the CEO of Heisman, Jeff Price, to get his vision uh on what to expect for Heisman moving forward. We're also gonna talk to Max Brown, the ACC analyst for ESPN, and get his take on what happened in college football over the weekend. Should be a great show. Hope you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Every program, every position, every player. They are all Heisman hopefuls.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Service Academies have a great tradition with the Heisman going back to Army and Navy. Army has three Heisman Trophy winners, Navy has two. The last one was 1963 with Roger Staubak. Uh, I do like to bring on uh Service Academy players whenever possible because uh recognizing their greatness and their abilities uh in the context of what they go through during the course of their college career, I think is a very important thing to recognize. We've had Blake Horvath on from Navy the last two seasons. And this season we are having another Navy quarterback on, Braxton Woodson, who's coming off a great uh starting debut. I mean, he did start some games early in his career, but this is his first game as a as the starter for Navy football. 200 yards rushing on 23 carries, three touchdowns, just a magnificent performance against Towson State. They won 42 to 15. I wanted to talk to him and get some uh of his background, find out more about him. I mean, because if you watch him play, he's an exciting runner, probably one of the best runners you'll see as a quarterback in college football. So without further ado, let's talk to Braxton Woodson. All right, Braxton Woodson, uh welcome to the Heisman Hopeless Podcast. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:26

I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Wow. Uh first start of the year against Towson, 200 yards, uh 23 carries, three touchdowns. For those who watch Navy closely, not you know, it's not a big surprise that you did well, but wow, 200 yards in your first game. Did this surprise you to do as well as you did?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Yeah, I'd say 200 yards, that was a little bit surprising. Um, really, I think my main goal going out there was just to just um, you know, just make sure everybody was confident going into the rest of the season. Um, I think we had a little bit of question going into the game as far as like what our production was going to be like on the offensive side of the ball. Um, so I think we just wanted to kill any narratives with that and just go out there and just play sound football and just execute really well. And I think we did that for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, it looked like the offense, uh, Drew Cronic's offense was really humming on all cylinders in that game. Uh what were some of the goals you had uh beyond just winning the game? What were you looking for as far as developing the offense, some of the markers that you needed to hit to see where you were at that point?

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Yeah, I think it I think it's going by position group. I think for you know our slot backs and our B-backs, uh, we have a lot of new people in those positions. So to get them acclimated uh to the college football world was kind of a goal that we had set. And I think um we got a lot of people the ball, and they were able to, you know, do some things with it, get hit a couple times, you know, see what the speed of the game feels like. And for the offensive line, we had so many people coming back. So like we knew that they were just gonna, you know, go in there and just handle business to which they did. So I mean, just I think we handled both of those areas really, really well. And then for myself, um, I think it was just executing it all, um, really just going out there and making sure everybody hears my voice, uh, being confident while you're playing, that type of thing. And I think I think 42 points is what you get from that.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Sure. Tell me about this offense. When you uh come under center, what are the first things you're you're looking at and and uh what's going through your head? What are you looking at on the deep for the for on the defense as far as trying to execute that option?

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Yeah, I think our our offense is so dynamic, you could be looking at a lot of things depending on the play. Um, a lot of the times, you know, when we get under center, it's uh it's more of a more of our option stuff. So you're gonna be looking at your defensive front, uh seeing what you have, you know, if you have a three technique, five technique, that type of thing. Um, and and you'd cater one way or the other depending on you know what the game plan of the week is. Um obviously, you know, if you're doing some type of RPO or in the passing game, you're gonna look at your safeties, two high, one high, whether they're in some type of man or zone coverage. Um, and then you also see where your backers are. They kind of have a telltale sign of what the defensive coverage is gonna be as well. Um, and then from there you kind of just you just go off of that. Uh different plays, we have our different keys, like I said, and it it's really not it's not too difficult to to go up there and just just ID somebody, but uh we keep it, we try to keep it pretty basic.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

How often do you practice the little things in this kind of offense like pitching, you know, uh pulling the ball out, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Every day. Every day, multiple, multiple periods during practice because um you just have to you have to be able to, you know, repetition, you know, repeat that stuff over and over and over again. So when you get to the game, it it's kind of just like second nature. So we do it really, really often, actually.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, you were only uh you only had six pass attempts in the game, which I guess for Navy is always a good sign if you had a few pass attempts. Uh how do you feel about the prospect of of airing it out more when when the opportunity comes? I know you had uh last is it last year, I think you uh threw the ball 19 times against East Carolina. You were 12 and 19, uh did quite well. Uh how was your development as a passer come along uh since last year?

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Yeah, I think um going into the offseason, that was an area where I wanted to improve a lot, uh throwing the ball wise. And I think I did that. I think uh we made some strides definitely there. Uh just getting the connection right with the receivers that we have here. Um I definitely think we improved in that. But uh only throwing the ball six times this past game. I mean, things like that happen. I mean, uh when you're moving the ball well and you know things are going well, there's no, there's kind of really no need um to go out there and air the ball out and you know, show all your cards in a sense. Uh so we'd rather just you know keep doing what we were doing. Um it was working for us, but you know, I'm sure there's gonna come a time um where we need to air it out a little bit more. We need to be prepared for that. So that's why we get back to practice, get back to the drawing board, get ready for it.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, that was sort of an element that I thought Blake Horvath uh brought uh to the Navy offense last couple of years. He came on the show each of the last two years, by the way. And you know, his passing attack, I think, for that offense was pretty refined. What did you learn a lot from him by watching him and learning how to run this offense?

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah, I think his decision making was what really made him stand out towards um any game that we played. Um I think it's really just him being able to, you know, win to when to throw the ball, when to make the tight throw, when to, you know, run the ball and get us a first down, that type of thing. Um I've just tried to mimic that, you know, from his game and be the best that I can be at that.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

So yeah, he went to Lake Brantley High School uh out there on Altamont Springs. I actually went to Bishop Mora High School uh out in Orlando. So I know the area very well.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Uh I was looking at some of your uh highlight tapes on Huddle, your senior year highlight tapes, and you were so fast, like the camera couldn't keep you in frame half the time because you're off you're running off the off the camera edge. Uh man, you were fast. 10, 7, 1, 100 meters. You were uh right up there, uh number 14 at the state meet that year. Uh I feel like uh maybe did you always want to be a quarterback uh in the triple option offense? Or did you at some point during the recruiting process think, oh, I could potentially uh do something else as well?

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Yeah, that that opportunity presented itself a couple of times, going to do something else. But um, you know, I got a lot of guidance from uh my high school coach, uh Coach Skip Clayton. He um he just said, he just said, you know, you're a quarterback, you've been doing this your whole life. Um so wherever you go, your your impact is going to be made. So I kind of took that and ran with it. And I thought, you know, why not, if I'm running the option in high school, why not go to you know one of the best option places in the country and see what I could do? And uh it's worked out for me. So no complaints, really.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah, how different is uh triple option offense in high school compared to a triple option offense uh at the FPS level?

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yeah, I think at the FBS level, everything's so much more technical, like the footwork and uh where your eyes are pre-snap, that type of thing. Um in high school, it's kind of just move your feet around and make people miss and and that type of thing. Um but yeah, there's a lot more technicality. Um you need to know what everybody else is doing. Um, not to say that you don't need to do that in high school, but you know, it's emphasized a lot more when you get to college and it's it's a necessity if you want your team to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Right. Um when you're running as fast as you did in high school, running, running off the page, uh you can kind of just get away with uh how physically guys, right? Yeah. Um so tell me about this recruiting process. You looked at the other uh academies as well, I believe. Um ultimately chose Naval Academy. Tell me about your your decision to go there, what your visit was like, uh, what kind of impression it left on you when you went up to Annapolis?

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Yeah, coming to Annapolis, um it was kind of like a no-brainer the second that I that I stepped on, that I stepped on the campus uh in comparison to everywhere else that I visited. Uh really what it was for me was the people. Um Coach Jasper, uh, the quarterback's coach now, he was really heavily involved in my recruitment. And, you know, he really just he really sold me and my family. He came to our house a couple times and he was just very personable. And you could tell that he was genuine. Um, and that's something that you look for in today's age of college football, just genuine coaches, genuine people. And then they let us sit down with some of the players who were here at the time and just hearing their stories um and you know what led them to the academy. And it just sounded like you know, a group of guys who wanted to do something more than themselves, along with playing, you know, a high level of football. And that was something, you know, that I could see myself doing. Um it was also good to see that, you know, like the guys here aren't robots and that, you know, they're just not wearing the uniform and marching around all day and doing all that kind of crazy stuff. So I was like, okay, so these guys are just normal people who happen, you know, to do the military stuff and who happen to, you know, probably play a high level of college football. So when I saw that, you know, it gave me a lot more comfort in my family as well that, you know, he could do this.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah. What's it like to be a uh football player at the Naval Academy in the sense like uh other schools, they might do things a certain way, but there's all these little different things that Navy uh does. Uh you guys go on uh you guys have your summer cruises and all that kind of thing. Uh what are some of the things like maybe on a day-to-day basis, routine-wise, that is might be a little bit different from what you hear about other schools?

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah, I think it it would just be, you know, you got to get to class every day, you know, you got to be squared away with your uniform every day. Um, there's no being late to class, you know, that's not really a thing, but there's uh precautions and you know consequences of you doing that. Um there's formations and things like that. Sometimes, you know, we're lucky enough to get out of some formations because we have like uh lifts or practice or meetings or something like that, but there's formations. Um in the evening, sometimes we have like um uh keynote speakers come back to speak to us and things like that. So we have to deal with that. And you know, after practice, you have to hustle up from practice and get to that. Um, there's a lot of different things that that go on with it. But you know, what we talk about here is like compartmentalization and um, you know, handling handling your business when you're over here um on the academy side of things, and then when it's time to step into that football role, you know, you kind of just you know wipe everything and you're fully locked into the football side of things. And I think that compartmentalization is a piece that you know you carry on your four years and it and it helps you and you get a lot bit a lot better at it, you know, as you as you stay here.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, you talked about getting your uniform squared away. Are you are you good good at ironing your uniform now and doing all the little things that you have to tweak?

SPEAKER_04 12:10

You learn how to iron it, yeah. You learn to iron it your freshman year, and then you do this thing where you take it to the dry cleaners every year after that. So you kind of find a way around it.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

You learn the trick, right? How about keeping the shoes shiny? You learn the trick about putting the Vaseline on your shoes to keep them nice and shiny.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

For the for the inspections, yeah. I heard about the Vaseline on the shoes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, what are some of your favorite uh traditions at the Naval Academy so far that you've picked up?

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Hmm. Favorite traditions. Um, so we do at the end of like every at the end of every week, we have like an end of league formation. And it's kind of where like the whole company is there, and everybody's just talking to each other and just you know, hearing what they did this past weekend, and you know, you're shouting out people who did spectacular things in the over the course of the weekend and that type of thing. And it's cool to see like your whole company there. Um, and everybody's, you know, just all that like camaraderie and everybody talking to each other. It's pretty cool to see.

unknown 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

I say you're nice.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

When you went, you did you go on a summer cruise this past summer, or did you get out of that because of football?

SPEAKER_04 13:12

Yeah, I did. We went to Leatherneck. So Leatherneck was um in Cornicho, Virginia, and we we did about uh two two weeks um just learning everything about the Marine Corps and what it means to be like a Marine officer. So it was a very cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Are you are you gonna go the Marine route or what's what's your plan as far as uh once you get to the road?

SPEAKER_04 13:31

So right now we have to put in our preferences of what we would like to select um by tomorrow, and I'm I'm still holding on and I'm I'm trying to decide whether I want to be, you know, either a Navy pilot or a marine pilot. So I've been talking to a lot of the officers on the yard, trying to figure out what exactly I want to do with that.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

So you're gonna be a pilot. That's your that's your definite thing you want to do.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

100%.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

So uh what what attracts you to being a pilot? What's is it just because you you're you're already flying so fast down the field, you just want to keep moving fast?

SPEAKER_04 14:03

No, uh on one of the summer trainings that we did, uh, we were able to you know get up in the air and have the controls of like a like a test plane, like a a prop plane. And I think I fell in love with it from that moment on. And then just like the the people that are in the aviation community, they're just really, really good people, really down to earth. And um, and I think just the mission set of what you know some of the planes within the navy and the marine corps do, I think that's something that aligns with myself as well. And it's just something that I really can see myself doing.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

How much like top gun is it?

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Um I I think there's a small, a small percentage that's like top gun. Um, I don't think I'd want to fly those fast jets, though. I'd probably want to do something more like a helicopter or like a like a cargo plane or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Okay, let's do some uh some rapid fire questions here. Uh what's a better feeling? A 69-yard touchdown uh pass or a 74 yard touchdown run?

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Uh I'd say 74 yard touchdown run.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Uh you caught a pass from Blake Horvath uh against Army last year. Rate your hands from one to ten.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

I say I say ten out of ten hands. I haven't dropped anything, so ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Did you, by the way, do you did you guys practice that play a lot?

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Uh a bunch, yeah. We practiced it a bunch.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Uh what's the hardest thing about Navy that has nothing to do with football?

SPEAKER_04 15:24

Um I say like the accountability, uh making sure somebody knows where you are at all times. Accountability.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Altamont Springs are Annapolis in December. Altamont Springs. Army Navy is December 12th. Finish this sentence. On December 13th, I want to be a CIC champion. Nice. Um all right. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about uh your Instagram account. You have a phrase, add astra per aspera to the stars through hardships. Tell me about that slogan while you while you latched onto it, where you found it.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

Yeah, so on the class of 2026, every class has like a slogan that they use. And I I I read it from one of my friends, his name is um Kenny Hall. He had it like on his shirt, and I I didn't know what it meant. So like um he told me that it was kind of like their class motto type thing. And um I was just hearing about it and I was like, that you know, two stars through hardship. And there was like a little bit more deep dive that he did into it. Uh, but he was like, it was just a really good quote that he liked to use. Um, and especially since it's being used for the for the class of 2026. Uh, I thought it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah. I ha have you been through hardships or do you just see it as something that in case you do go through hardships?

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Yeah, I think there's hardships that you go through, especially you know, especially being here at the academy, like it's there's things that are hard that you go through every day. Um, and I think just having that having that mentality, uh, like you can you can overcome any type of hardships that you go through is kind of what what um I was getting at with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah. Uh Navy's got a couple Heisman Trophy winners, Joe Bellino, Roger Staubak. You ever met uh Roger Staubbeck at all?

SPEAKER_04 17:05

I haven't met him um one-on-one, but I've seen him like on the field and stuff like that. He's come back to the facility and things like that. I'd love to be able to, you know, shake his hand.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Well, certainly uh there's great tradition there, and it's uh really cool that you're a part of it. Uh Braxton Woodson, congratulations on this great uh opening win uh versus Towson. 200 yards on 23 carries, three touchdowns, number two in the nation in rushing so far this year after one game. Only two guys have had uh 200 yard games this year, and you're one of them. So congratulations on that and good luck against the you and good luck the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Yes, Larry. Thank you. I appreciate you guys.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

We're also gonna talk to new Heisman CEO Jeff Price about the launch of the new Heisman Hopefuls fan vote and platform that is going to really amplify a lot of the great stories happening in college football. So stick around. We're gonna really have a great conversation with him and find out what's in store for the future of the Heisman. All right, welcome back to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. We are here with Jeff Price, the Heisman CEO, hired last year. He's going into his first full football season. Jeff, welcome to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Um thrilled to be on with you, Chris. Thanks so much. Uh great to see college football starting and to see all of the Heisman conversation that is happening and with the launch of Heisman Hopefuls coming. Excited uh for what this college season is going to mean.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Absolutely exciting times all around for college football and Heisman. Uh, real quick, a little bit on your background. You came from uh PGA of America. You were the chief commercial and philphilanthropic officer. Just tell me a little bit about uh your background as as it pertains to your interest in Heisman and college football, and maybe who the first Heisman uh trophy uh uh players that you really uh followed were and what got you interested in college football.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So uh let's go all the way back. I was actually a D3 college quarterback and receiver at Bates College up in Maine. Uh so I I started, you know, on the field of play, wasn't really ever a Heisman hopeful, but uh certainly uh had great respect and admiration for those that uh were winning the Heisman back in my era, early to mid-80s. And um, you know, over the course of a 35 year career in sports, the last 12 before coming to Heisman at the PG of America, I was focused on building a commercial program for the PJ of America, the more than 30,000 members, and great events like the PGA Championship, the KPMG Women's PGA Championship, and the Ryder Cup. And so a strong commercial marketing background, but also had the wonderful privilege of overseeing the PG of America Reach Foundation and really that philanthropic work that PGA members do each day, and that our foundation really helped to fund giving youth the opportunity to play the great game of golf, um, engaging with the veteran community and making sure that the game itself was more representative of society. Um, I think when Heisman was going through a search for a CEO, um I may have been the only candidate who had commercial and philanthropy in the title. So uh it kind of I think piqued their interest. Certainly, my interest in uh everything Heisman um over the years has been great and just thought what a fantastic platform this is. Um, I was fortunate actually growing up in New England that uh Doug Floody and I went to football camp together. And and I actually realized watching Doug, he's a little bit older than I am, um, play at camp, that my aspiration to play D1 or maybe even in the Ivy Leagues was probably a bit of an overshot. So uh watching Doug on the field of play, and obviously what he did at Boston College was my first exposure uh to Heisman, but obviously amazing Heisman trophy winners from the 80s, uh uh, all of whom uh you know represented such excellence on the field of play and have gone on to do amazing things off the field of play, is really what inspired me to want to step into this role.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah, and you know, there's some parallels between uh PGA and golf and Heisman and college football, you know, as far as the this time-honored tradition and this heritage that they both represent. Was this kind of a natural fit for you when you came over? Did it feel like you knew exactly uh what Heisman was all about?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

So I I think I've been fortunate um to over the course of my career, was at Sports Illustrated for almost a decade, uh, was president and publisher for sporting news, two highly iconic traditional organizations that both needed to find the sweet spot of respecting tradition, but also looking to drive innovation. And um, for me, the opportunity at Heisman was to take advantage. Of 90 plus years of equity and the amazing accomplishments, both on and off the field of the winners, and everything that the charitable work of the foundation that very few folks know about, the work of Heisman in that space, to take that to a next level and the opportunity to step in, work with a board that was very focused on driving growth and impact, it's just an amazing opportunity. But you're right, there are some real parallels between the tradition of and honor that golf has, but also making sure that you are contemporary, relevant, and looking to drive innovation to keep something meaningful, purposeful, uh, and engaged in a world where people can have a very short attention span.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah. Well, you got to Heisman, you were hired by Heisman last year, and then you had to come up with a vision. You had to come up with a plan for what would uh happen with Heisman going forward. Uh just give us some background. And when you look at the Heisman and the platform and the tradition and the brand, how did you sort that all out? What did you see uh uh from afar? And then when you got in, what did you see? And then what was your plan uh going forward?

SPEAKER_00 23:13

So I think first it starts with a board, our board chair Dan Reed, Mike Comerford, the vice chair, who helped to transition to this next era of Heisman. Um I think they had a very clear sense that over the course of the three eras of Heisman, going back to the Downtown Athletic Club, a prestige asset of the DAC. I think one of the most important things the DAC did was involve the media in the voting for the Heisman. And um, over the course of decades, the media has told amazing Heisman stories and helped to drive relevance of Heisman really beyond college football. You know, we we just looked at our Instagram um account. And if you look at the number of folks outside of football who are doing the Heisman pose in moments of excellence, whether it's performance on the field to play, at a graduation, at a wedding, things of importance. Heisman really has transcended coming out of that first era from the DAC. John Heisman, obviously, um, the athletic director, longtime legendary college football coach, administrator, visionary, um, naming it after John, building that. And then unfortunately, after 9-11 never reopened in bankruptcy, a group of members of the club created the Heisman Trophy Trust. They wanted to protect that legacy, make sure that it continued beyond the physical structure of the DAC, made it a 501 with a charitable focus and commitment. Um, and over the course of those years built a $75 million endowment, which enabled them to make over $30 million of grants to youth, sports, and education programs in the last decade that almost no one knows about. And that's certainly something as I've looked at this and we've talked about it with the board, building the Heisman Foundation and making sure that the impact that we drive is everlasting, moving from that era of protection to one of growth and impact. And what we've recognized is that Heisman has excellence. We have the ability to empower the next generation to make a difference, and that can create enduring impact. And so, stepping in, there were kind of three or four key areas of focus that we and the board aligned on. Number one is historically, and Chris, you know this, you've been around Heisman, um, really until the finalists were announced. Heisman's always taken a neutral approach, as we will continue to do in the conversations, the campaigns that you were running at USC and other places. Um, those have been amazing, but it's kind of been outside the realm of Heisman. And being a part of that conversation, it is the most outstanding player each year awarded in college football. We want to make sure that every player from every program and every position, when they put on a uniform, they're a Heisman Hopeful. And then over the course of the season, someone will have the opportunity to earn that. And we want to help to amplify those stories, help the schools to be able to further their campaigns, their efforts behind their Heisman Hopefuls. And we also recognize we've been doing a fan vote, Chris, as you know, for a number of years, but it was always kind of an after-the-fact statement. Last year, Fernando Mendoza, our amazing Heisman winner, won the trophy. It wasn't announced until after that Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech, that amazing linebacker, had won the fan vote. Well, this year we're going to change that. And the first official ballot cast with Heisman Hopefuls will come conference championship weekend. And we're going to give the fans and their voice the opportunity to say, hey, over the course of the season, this is who the fans believe have earned the Heisman Trophy. Let's now open it to the media and the winners who form the electorate. Um, but over the course of this season with high with hopefuls.heisman.com, looking at every position, every player bringing in statistics and analytics we've never had before, EA Sports bringing in their rankings, partnering with Carnegie Mellon. We really saw an opportunity to be a part of the conversation. Again, we will be neutral. We want whomever it is that's going to win and earn the Heisman Trophy to do that on the field to play. But we knew we could be part of the conversation, help to amplify that conversation and make it hopefully more meaningful, more informed, better data analytics. We did a significant amount of consumer research, and consumers said, hey, we want to look at everybody from every position, and we'd love more objective data as it relates to Heisman. So Heisman Hopefuls was a critical importance of what importance of what I saw. And I think what we and the board aligned against and the team, um, Brendan Baumgunner, Ron Yurko at Carnegie Mellon, Matt Reinhardt at Next League have all worked, you know, tirelessly to get this launched. And we've got the fan vote launching tomorrow, which we're excited about. And so Heisman Hopefuls was a big piece of the plan. We knew we'd have we've got these amazing winners. And Chris, maybe one of the most amazing things to me is how leaned in and excited the winners are to help build and co-create the Heisman Club. The hardest club to get into in sports, one person a year. And they want to build a deeper community amongst themselves. They want to drive more charitable impact. They want storytelling to make sure that the stories of the Heisman winners live on to generations to come. And then can we create some commercial opportunities together that furthers both the Heisman platform and the work of our winners? So building out the club was a focal point. And the more we've gotten into it, I can't, you couldn't imagine the hours that amazing Heisman winners have spent kind of leaning into that and into the creation of this club has truly been one of the great joys of stepping into this role. And then really building out the Heisman Foundation and making sure that the charitable impact that we have, along with a new program we've launched with the Aspen Institute, the Captain's Leadership Academy, to help train young men and women who are captains of their teams to become better leaders, better leaders of their teams and schools in their community, making an impact and then bringing back the Heisman High School program to recognize a young man, a young woman, a coach, and a school for the work that they're doing to change their community. Because Heisman, we really believe that sport has the power to change the world, but it has to be done one step at a time. And so those areas of focus and then building out a team and hiring amazing talent to join Tim Heading, who has been here for 25 years running our strategy and operations, but hiring Adrian Sharonzel from the Chicago Bulls to run our foundation, Kristen Kondo coming over from Fenway Sports to run our partnership, and Charlie Widows from Brooklyn Sports and Entertainment to help us build content and storytelling. It's great to have a wonderful team and to be able to partner with our board to really move this mission forward and be in a place where Heisman goes to the next level in this third era.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Very interesting stuff. Going back to a couple of things you touched upon about the Heisman fan vote. I always talk about the Heisman being an election. And I think you mentioned somewhere along the way about the Heisman fan vote being sort of a dick spill notch of the Heisman election, so to speak. Tell me a little bit about that thought process.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

So I grew up in New Hampshire. And obviously every four years during the primaries, New Hampshire is a bit of a beacon of what's happening and time is spent. And so I made the joke to the team that as we put this together, if we give the fans the opportunity for the first vote, that vote can then make sure that folks who might not be in the consideration from positions that might not be in consideration, all of a sudden get some attention. And that if we broaden the scope, open the aperture, which I think we've done analytically with statistics, but then give the fans a legitimate voice with their vote. Let's cast it as the first vote, as you said, Dixville Notch every time cast that first vote. New Hampshire overall always leads in that kind of leading into what are people thinking. And so for us, giving the fans and engaging with the fans, giving the schools the ability as they build campaigns to help to promote their players, we thought it just made sense. Again, we can stay neutral. The fans are going to be the ones who are voting. We've made sure we built in the protections to the system so that bots aren't driving this. It is real humans and real fans. Um, but we think there's a real opportunity by having a season-long conversation, having that data and analytics portal at hopefuls.heisman.com, and then the first fan vote coming conference championship weekend, it just allows for an even deeper and richer conversation about Heisman, which, if this weekend was any indication, every tele, every game that I watched, and I watched a bunch this weekend, probably more college football than I've watched in a long time, the number of players who were at the top of a Heisman list or doing the Heisman pose after a touchdown, um, it's amazing to see the conversation that's happening around this prestigious award. And someone's going to earn it on the field of play.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

And you know, it's a very unique trophy, right? It's as you mentioned, it's a cross-cultural trophy. Uh people know about it who don't really follow college football. They know the pose. It's been in songs. Uh they might have seen Desmond Howard do the pose on a commercial. They kind of know what it is. So there seems to be uh uh power and reach that the Heisman has that makes it a unique um property in in ways that other trophies don't even come close. And I would think that this kind of gives you a lot of freedom to to really amplify a lot of these things, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Well, I I think it comes from back to the point of honoring tradition, but looking to drive innovation. If we're able to kind of hit the sweet spot of we've got 90 years of excellence that's represented in all those winners, in all those achievements, both on the field of play, obviously, to earn the Heisman Trophy. But when those winners go on, whether it's in the NFL or in their communities, making the difference that they make, um, we have to honor that tradition. But we also have an opportunity to drive innovation and creativity and look to partner with brands. We've had an amazing partner in ESPN for decades. We look forward to many more, many more years to come with ESPN. Nissan has been a just tremendous partner, and the stories they've told have certainly helped to elevate Heisman and they've been terrific. But as we engage with other brands and really creatively think about how do you find this intersection of respecting and honoring tradition and driving innovation, there's a lot of ground that you can cover. And in those areas like Heisman Hopefuls and the Heisman Club and the work in the Heisman Foundation, um, we look forward to shaping a future together with our partners in a way that they're purposeful, they're meaningful, and that they have year-round impact.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yeah. Um college football's been pretty crazy lately. There's uh there's no hiding that. Uh every year the Heisman is awarded second Saturday in December. Uh what are you focusing on as far as trying to protect the position of the Heisman uh when it's um announced, when it's uh given out, and where that all fits in with the playoff?

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah. Um Rich Clark and the folks at the CFP have been amazing partners. Um, we're in constant contact with Rich and his team as they're building out scenarios for 12 teams, 16 teams, 24 teams. That's for them to decide. But making sure that much like Army Navy, Heisman is a tradition back to the tradition side of this that has to be honored. We're a regular season award. We celebrate the regular season. Um, and then CFP begins what will continue to evolve and grow into another great part of the future of college football. In that intersection of tradition and innovation, the opportunity for Heisman to have a weekend where the four finalists come together, that experience. Um, we've had a number of the Heisman winners telling the story of how important that weekend experience was to them. Much more important than you or I talking about it, hearing from someone like Fernanda, who just experienced it last year, or Tim Tebow, Eddie George, Barry, all of those amazing Heisman winners, it is a life-changing experience for the four finalists and certainly for the winner. And so we're working hard that in the context of the evolution of CFP as a regular season award, Heisman continues to have an important place on the calendar, and that that is something we're shaping together in partnership. Rich and CFP and the commissioners and Pete Bavakua, the Notre Dame AD, who ultimately make the decisions, uh, are very much informed as to the impact or unintended impact of what could happen in the scheduling. And so we feel very good today that we're part of the conversation. We're engaged with Rich and the CFP, uh, and we're going to make sure that Heisman's place, if we need to move a little bit to um make sure that we fit in that calendar, we have some flexibility. Um, that we don't know yet exactly, Chris, what that final schedule would look like. Um, but we're very confident that the importance of things like Army, Navy, and Heisman are not lost on any of the constituents in college football. And protecting that is probably job number one for me and our board, and we're very focused on it.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Well, Jeff, you got a great vision. I want to ask you five years from now, where do you see the Heisman? Uh if you had uh everything go perfectly, what would Heisman look like five years from now?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

So I think the importance of the ward and the importance of the winners continues to rise in stature. Um we've uh also then hopefully doubled uh the endowment that we have to make a greater charitable impact on the world because again, we want to have the legacy of Heisman Trophy and the winners to drive that kind of community impact. And so I think it starts with making sure the award continues to represent 90 plus years of greatness as we look to approach our 100th year. How has that continued to elevate in the context of college football? But at the end of the day, as a charitable 501c3 entity, we want to drive impact and really empower the next generation of leaders. Make sure kids who otherwise might not have access to sports can do so. Make sure that we're developing leaders through the high school program and the other things that we're going to undertake making a difference in future leaders. They may not be Heisman winners, but they could be, if you look back at the old Heisman High School program, there are congressmen and business leaders and folks who out of that program became future leaders. Um, how do we drive more of those individuals to create a greater impact because Heisman touched their lives and engage with them? And overall, that we are a positive engine for good in college football and more importantly in society.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Well, Jeff, uh thanks for coming on the Heisman Hopefuls podcast. Fantastic story and vision. Uh, it's very exciting times indeed for the Heisman. Uh, we look forward to seeing it all unfold, and we'll see you down the road.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

And Chris, as our, you know, amazing historian, uh, someone who has had a tremendous impact at storytelling of Heisman for so many years. Uh, thanks for all that you do for Heisman and looking forward to future conversation with you, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Sounds great. Appreciate it. Welcome back to the Heisman Hopeless Podcast. Our next guest is a longtime friend of the show, has been on several times, so many times now that I've lost track. Max Brown is one of the premier college football analysts around. He is a color analyst on the ACC ESPN crew. He is a former college quarterback, uh, played at USC and Pitt, one of the busiest men in the sport, has his own YouTube channel as well, uh, Max Brown. Uh, Max Brown. Uh, welcome back to the Heisman Hopefuls podcast.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

It's good to be here, Chris. Uh, new season in order, and uh yeah, great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

You know, first congratulations are in order. You and your your wife, Victoria, I know you're expecting a baby. We saw the announcement on social media. Your your wife did an amazing announcement, and then you kind of came in at the end and and exulted in it. Uh, so congratulations are in order.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

I appreciate it. Yeah, she uh pulled me away from a rare, it was a rare non-football post with the uh little photo shoot thing we did, but uh now we're excited and I was just Tony I'm off air. I'm very proud of my timing. A true football guy, you uh have the first kid a week after the Super Bowl, so right when off season starts. So hopefully that'll uh that'll help me do double duty.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, that's February, right? I think like February.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

February, and yeah, now it's a week later. Um so yeah, due date's like uh February 20th, 24th or so.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Well, I've got two February children, so the best. So you're gonna love them.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

What you uh what what days? I'm the second.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

So I have my my firstborn is two twenty-two-22. At two in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Well done. Talking about timing. Chris is locked in.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yeah, that's right. And uh the other one is two seventeen, twenty-four. So almost almost to the day.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

So that week is just birthday mayhem in uh in Chris's house.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um anyway, uh, congratulations again. But let's talk about this incredible week one. Uh, I think what everyone's talking about to kick things off, this Michigan uh ending, Michigan, Western Michigan. Um, what did you think about the way everything was handled? Uh just like from a, I'd say first from like a gut reaction as a as a former player, what thinking about like what guys probably had to go through, and then and then like kind of stepping back a bit uh from an analyst standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Totally. From a player, I mean, I literally, it was this happened when I was literally on air in the booth. Uh I was called, I was calling uh Virginia Tech and Jane Franklin's opener, and what we got in my ear, and they're like, you know, Hail Mary, Michigan, it's going crazy kind of thing. And and my first reaction is just sick for Western Michigan. I mean, that's the career-defining moment for a lot of those players and probably a lot of those coaches. So feel terrible for them, not only because of the loss, but then obviously how it happened, where I think for the rest of time they're gonna feel like they get rung in in rightfully simple. Um, from there to the analyst ten, um we're gonna get like three takes here. So the first one is the clunks were clearly not aligned. Whatever the rims were seeing, and then whatever we were seeing at home in our couch. And to me, the core problem here is that the Big Ten doubled down and said, well, nope, they got it right and the rims, you know, some of the clunk, and there was clearly one second on the um on the on the on the clunk. Well, then you're basically saying, Well, what we're seeing is incorrect or invalid, or we're seeing something wrong, and it's like we're not we're not dumb. It clearly isn't wrong. And so to me, I think it was a swing in the mess. It's one thing to have the tech wrong or whatever happened. It's another thing to double down and not acknowledge, hey, something was clearly a muff, um, which that to me was kind of the first mistake. That part's real documented. I'm in the ACC every single week in the Cumblage football season. The ACC, as of last year, has allowed the command center to be brought into the broadcast. So when am I gonna cumble happen on Saturday? We get a controversial couple about um or we get a um a uh a niche cumble about 12 men on the field, we kick it to the command center, and immediately we're hearing what the ramps are talking about. If the Big Ten and NBC had been it, I think a lot of this chaos is avoided because you would have heard. Heard in real time, and Ian Eagle and Todd Blackledge would have heard in real time, hey, we see one second on the clock. And so even if you're seeing on your television screen, it's all zeros, but you're hearing the refs say one second, I think sure there would have been pushbutt back and we would have been still talking about the tech, but I don't think there would have been as much chaos if you had that inside access. So don't be surprised if this is one of the events that next offseason, if there's a rule change for the Big Ten and they take a page out of the ACC's book, I wouldn't be surprised if we point back uh to this game. And then my last take on this one is I thought the Mac commissioner's comments were funny, where he's like, oh, you know, we uh we agree with the explanation we got from the Big Ten. And I'm sitting there thinking, if that was Greg Sankey at the SEC, there is no way Greg Sankey is saying that. And he's going to bat for his teams and he's, you know, he's embracing the war with the war. The Mac's business model, and I don't blame him, I'd be probably doing the same thing if I was the Mac commissioner. His own career trajectory is bettered if he has a good relationship with the Big Ten. So I thought that statement was also bizarre for him being like, yep, we're good to go. Because it just wouldn't have happened if that was, you know, um the ACC or Greg Senke with the SEC. And um obviously still a lot of uh lot of controversy.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah, there's still like an element of like protecting those paydays, right? Those those standalone games they have uh every year. Um I I'm just also thinking about it from the Michigan perspective. Uh is uh if you're a Michigan fan, uh it's gotta be like the like the most sour kind of victory, even though it was dramatic and you saw how poorly the team played and almost had an embarrassing loss. You know, what does Michigan as a team take away from from that performance? Is it just one of those things where like no one's ever gonna like say that this was a good win, but they did win, right?

SPEAKER_03 45:51

They did Yeah, and and to your first question about my gut reaction, my gut reaction was like this would happen to Michigan, right? A team that's had controversy after controversy the last few years with you know the Jim Harbaugh, um, you know, videotaping on the sideline scandal, to then what happened this past offseason with Sharone Moore. And then now, like, you know, the guy with the uh you bring in Kyle Whittingham, who's beloved by everyone. And I'm not saying this is a Kyle Whittingham thing, but then you know, he's the new head coach, and you have another controversy. So it's almost laughable that it would happen to Michigan. Um, but yeah, Michigan's in a weird spot too. You watch that film, Bryce Underwood did not play well. I was really high on Bryce Underwood relative to my peers this offseason, and at least with that first game, hasn't taken a step. So if you're a Michigan fan, it's like, all right, sweet, we got our natty two years ago, but really ever since then, they have not been able to, you know, capitalize on that, and they got a long way to go um to get back into contention. I will say this, and a lot of people are saying this though. You know, I remember what, two years ago, Notre Dame lost to Northern Illinois on that last second field goal and then played for the national championship in that same season. So it wouldn't be like this. Watch Michigan win nine games and be in the CFP conversation here in uh November, and we're all like laughing looking back uh two months later.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yeah, I don't think anybody would would be surprised by that. Um, first game of the Kyle Whittingham era, uh obviously not a very impressive uh debut. Is it just that like you mentioned, uh Michigan won the title two or three years ago, and they sort of fell off a cliff, but not really. Like they they won nine games, I think, the year after that. They sort of were able to stabilize things, and then they had the you know the issues with their coach. Is the hangover from losing the coach kind of worth the going through? Is it still Wittingham trying to imprint his his you know, his culture, his ethos on the team, and that still hasn't gotten there yet?

SPEAKER_03 47:43

I think there's some of that. Yeah, I think there's some of that. Um, and that just obviously takes time. Um, but I also just think it speaks to how competitive the Big Ten is. I mean, that year they won the national title. So much was made about their experience and their depth, and then all the guys they had go into that spring NFL draft, and it was what, like 15 guys got drafted. So, like naturally, you're gonna have some level of reload or at least rebuild in some capacity. Gone are the days in the transfer portal era of being able to just stockpile four and five-star guys, like we saw during the Saban era era. So I think some of that's just kind of the natural progression. And then they didn't have a quarterback or they they missed on their quarterback the season after. And then the next season, which was last season, you go all in on Bryce Underwood, making him, you know, the highest get ever out of you know, coming from high school in terms of compensation, um, NIL-wise, and it's gonna take time for him to develop. So it's almost like you're you're on a natural cycle a little bit. To your point, you got to have Kyle Whittingham um cement his imprints in terms of an identity. And then also, I think, given all the chaos and the controversy, and now this is two head coaching change. You go harbought a Sharone, Sharone now to uh to Whittingham, like naturally that's gonna that's gonna create some uh some shaking of the foundation that you have to stabilize.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah, and and is Bryce Underwood, is he a talent looking for the right match offense at this point? Uh do you think he can succeed in the kind of offense that Michigan wants to play uh under Kyle Whitney?

SPEAKER_03 49:17

It's a good question because my big criticism with Michigan last year is I thought their offense was very vanilla. And it felt like they were trying to, I kept using the term training wheels on Bryce Underwood, where it was like they they were calling plays for him not to make the catastrophic mistake, probably because he was a younger guy. And I was like, man, open it up. He's athletic, he's got the arm talent, open it up, and I was excited to see um Beck, their new offensive coordinator, open it up that way. But then you watch that game, it's it's not good for Bryce Underwood. What I will say though is I think there was a snowball effect where he made a big and bad interception early on in that game. And then I think he starts pressing, and then he missed back-to-back third downs that were on him, missed reads in the second quarter, and then it starts being a close game, and then you start pressing even more, and then he missed a couple other reads in the fourth quarter. They only ran 50 offensive plays that game, which for college football is really low, which means very few opportunities. So to me, I think that was he didn't play well, but I also don't expect that every single game because the quarterback in me kind of sees the negative snowball effect that happened as a result of him not starting well. So they got to find some sort of rhythm. He's uber talented, but it does to me. This might be a random comp, but it reminds me a little bit of DJ Lagway from last year in the sense of like so much expectations, so much hype. You clearly see the talent and the flashes, but it just feels like a guy that's pressing and pressing and pressing. And, you know, maybe DJ Lagway for Baylor this year finds the perfect match as the season goes on. Maybe it's gonna take longer for Bryce Underwood to follow the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit too, going back to another really highly talented quarterback, Vince Young. He took him a while to really find his legs at Texas until they finally, you know, they put him in the read option offense at the end or toward the middle of his sophomore year, I think. And he just kind of took off from there. They had, you know, they simplified things and just kind of let Vince be Vince. Uh are they worried that if they let Bryce be Bryce, then they are gonna have some, you know, some bumps along the way. So you kind of protect the record at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Yeah, I think that I would have said yes to the last staff. When I watched the film yesterday, like they're giving him opportunities to be a dynamic quarterback. Like they're at there, there's pass plays there to be had. He's just missing reads. And again, I think he got hit early a couple times. He had a bad pick and then missed two third downs, which we talk about money downs. Those are third downs, and then when you're in the red zone. And so I just I think three mistakes that are like that's on Bryce Underwood early on in the game. You start pressing, and you could tell they were they're they were still trying to get his legs involved a little bit in the second half, and it was just a bad game for him. And but but I but I wouldn't say it's a criticism of the the coaching staff. To me, the the the there were plays to be made there. Um, it was not a train wheels type of game. It's on Bryce to to grow and progress. But then also, if you're the Michigan staff, and I was I just saw a quote from Kyle Whittingham 10 minutes ago saying, hey, we got to coach better too. It will be interesting to see do they condense it down to try to protect Bryce a little bit, you know, try to get him even more easy completions early on in the game next week to get his confidence up.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah, they got Oklahoma next week is going to be uh a bear. Uh it's a heck of a defense over there.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Um that that was literally the best. Oh man, that was the best pass rush of any college football defense I saw last year in terms of defensive ends, linebackers, like in terms of the scheme you're bringing to the park, Brent Benables, in terms of what you're at like as a quarterback, that was that is not the defense you want to face if you're uh coming off a rough game.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

For sure. Let's delve into the ACC, which is your uh focus right now. Boa Prabula, Virginia quarterback, had a great first game, really showed some fantastic open field running, uh, which you know, people knew he could run, but I think putting it all together in this kind of cohesive, coherent offense, seeing him do that all. What did you think about his performance against NC State?

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Yeah, as Lake showed up, um, and I think it was a good get by Virginia, getting uh getting Prabula. To me, what jumps out is his offensive line. And, you know, that could be the identity for Virginia of they think they have the best offensive line in the ACC. They showed it week one. You have a running quarterback like Prabula, um, they have a running back they love as well. And then it's unclear what their receiver position is, so like that's gonna be their identity. And it was a recipe for success. Um, I am intrigued to see can you do that game in and game out all season long when you get into November asking your quarterback to run six, eight, ten times a game, like design quarterback runs right at you. But um I I love that. And then you combine it with that Virginia defense, that defense will win you games too. Like they were good last year. I think they can be great this year where they can win some grimy games. So a huge conversation in the ACC all offseason was all right, we know Miami's the number one team, but who's that second team? Some people at Louisville, they showed out well um last night. I know they lost, but they showed out relatively well. Some people have SMU, a lot of people like Clemson. Clemson did not show well in week one um at LSU. But then I think you have to put Virginia as that, you know, next team in terms of uh someone that could uh could get in there and maybe face Miami in the uh in the conference title game at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Yeah, sure. When you have a quarterback who can make things happen, like like Bocan, when when plays break down, ability to do things to your feet, it's like that's the kind of stuff that drives people crazy, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:47

It does. It does. And intriguing to see how he develops as a passer, right? Last year, Chandler Morris, Virginia's quarterback, was great, um winning from the pocket. I made this point on air because I called that that that uh Probula's game week zero of like, you know, where is he from a passing dynamic? Last year at Missouri, it was like, I think 12 touchdowns, nine picks. I think he's got to live more in that, you know, 20 touchdowns, call it six or eight picks kind of thing. But if uh if his legs are working, that'll give time for the passing game to develop. And he's a super talented dude. And it feels like to our point about Bryce of trying to find the perfect marriage and the perfect fit, you know, Probula was the change of pace guy at Penn State, you know, then goes to Missouri, has a mixed bag of success, gets hurt, and then that's ultimately where, you know, I think the play wasn't as good. Goes to Virginia. He's got a great defense, he's got a great offensive line. For Probula, that's got to be the the you know the dream pairing for a quarterback.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

For sure. And they have a lot of confidence in him. They first play of the of the game uh for them, uh quarterback draw, right? Um designed run. Uh you mentioned Lincoln Keenholds over Louisville before uh earlier. Uh or maybe you didn't mention Lincoln, but you mentioned Louisville. Uh I thought coming over from Ohio State, uh, there was some question marks, uh, you know, how ready he would be, but man, I thought he looked fantastic, like from a football bearing standpoint. Like he looked like he was ready, that he belonged, that he, you know, moment wasn't too big for him. And uh I thought he looked really outstanding out there, both with his arm and with his feet.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

It's a good point, especially in your first collegiate start and things don't go well the first half, to like look the part in the second half and not look like the moment's too big and respond, and um his legs showed up, which I know for Louisville fans, that's got to get you excited because that to me, there were two questions with the transition for Keenholtz going into Jeff Brahms' offense. You know, this was the only so Jeff Brahms had a history of taking transfer quarterbacks the last three times and having success. And those quarterbacks having the most success in Brahms' system. But all three of the previous guys had had experience at their previous school. Keenholtz was the first guy that didn't have legitimate experience. Yes, he was at Ohio State. Yes, he was a big recruit, but he didn't have the on-game experience. I was curious how that would transition. And then of the transfer quarterbacks that Brahms had in the past, none of them have been able to run the way that Keen Holtz has been able to run. And so I was curious how that marriage would play out. And I think you walk away, Louisville being like, damn, we had an opportunity to win that game, but we gotta like our quarterback. There's edge rushers too. And um, I think you got to walk away with a lot of hope about uh, you know, Keen Holtz's ability moving forward for Louisville.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Yeah, for sure. Keen Holtz clearly uh, I mean, seems like a guy who people are gonna be talking about as his career goes on as a uh high-end talent, I think, as a quarterback in college football, don't you think?

SPEAKER_03 57:31

Looks the part, yeah, the mobility, the size. I thought um even winning from the pocket, like that two-point conversion throw, the tight spiral, the arm strength on the outside, and then as with each game that goes by goes on, and he starts more and more, and gets he's not the you know, backup is trying to find his way, or you know, the new starter, that confidence is only going to grow even more. And then, especially for dual threat quarterbacks, when that confidence grows more, you get a feel for the pocket. And his life, my my point there is that you won't have to call design runs for his legs to show up. It'll be just a natural feel in the pocket, and things could get excited, exciting and um and explosive. And don't forget, um, Louisville's running back, Isaac Brown. This time last year, we were talking about him as maybe the best running back in the ACC. He was banged up last year, so didn't have the stats. He's a baller, too. And if you have Keenholtz's legs with then number one standing right beside you, that could be a lethal combination in the backfield.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

Absolutely. And that system's a really good, uh, just great all-around system by Jeff Braum. Let's talk about your alma maters, USC and Pitt, the quarterbacks there, Jaden Mayava uh on the year so far, 48 to 54, 89, five touchdowns. He's basically got as many touchdowns as uh incompletions through two games. And you know, it's not like he's uh not throwing the ball a lot. He's airing it out a bit, especially in this last game. What do you see for from him compared to what you saw from him last year? What does he look how how different does he look to you?

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Yeah, I mean, uh in terms of that the comparison, honestly, um, where it jumps off the most is the clips you're seeing on social media of him talking and his personality coming out and him giving the head coach the game ball and being a leader and and just being more just the presence. I don't think you sensed that last year. And it was a tough spot to come in at he was coming in after Caleb Williams. I know Miller Moss, another Jeff Brahm transfer, um, was was in there a little bit before, but it still felt like you're still trying to fill the shoes of of Caleb Williams. And he's a baller. I said all offseason, I felt like he was flying under the radar. I mean, he's on these lists, but he's more in like the you know, number nine, number 10, number 11 national quarterback, or you know, he's the fifth guy mentioned in the Big Ten. And I'm saying, yo, you know, his play caller is Lincoln Riley, who's what last year had five starters in the NFL, and he's had no shortage of Heisman trophy winners to the uh to the tune of this podcast. Like, don't sleep on this dude. And I felt like last year, I mean, his two receivers, Jacoby Lane, was getting a bunch of buzz in NFL training camps, and then Lemon, first round receiver, like they were getting the headlines, and it's oh, look at the USC's receivers. But you look at a lot of the plays they're making, it's incredible throws by Jaden Maiava. And now, you know, it's his show. He's having a new receiver core, so he's having to step up and um he's got the arm strength. I think his mobility sneaks up on people in terms of him being able to navigate the pocket. I think he has he throws the ball with touch at a high level, whether it's over the linebackers or even down the field. I think he's got everything you want. And uh, I think part of the reason he's flying under the radar a little bit is he's probably the lowest level recruit USC's ever started this century. So you don't have the like buzz coming into uh into the into the um into the name, maybe. But uh he's not, I don't after you know the next couple weeks, he's not gonna be sneaking up on anyone, and uh, this USC offense looks explosive.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

For sure. He's just throwing lasers out there. Uh also got that great freshman receiver, Trent Mosley. Uh he looks to me, I don't really see much of a drop-off from Mikiah Lemon, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

I agree. I agree. And it's funny, I'm trying to like USC's had no shortage of big-time true freshman receivers that have played football for a very long time. Like before me, it was Marquis Lee. I had, you know, Juju Smith Schuster, Nelson Aguilar, you talk about Amon Ross, St. Brown, Drake London, and then now he's next in line. All guys that are, you know, um, long, long careers in uh in the NFL. My point with bringing that up, though, is I don't think he's like a direct comp to any of those guys. I think he takes little bits and pieces of all their skill set. And what impresses me the most is for a true freshman in the first two weeks, for him to have the, it feels like he's the go-to guy. And a lot of those routes are like him finding windows and him finding spacing. And it's not just oftentimes when you see true freshman receivers, it's hey, go on the outside and run deep and just let me see your athleticism or let me dial up some screen passes for you. That's not the play calls. For Mosley, it's like, you know, he's working behind backers and it's more sophisticated um routes and things that you would expect like a sophomore junior senior to have like feel and experience with. He's having that from the jump, and I think it speaks to, you know, how bright the future is for Trent Mosley.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Yeah, and and I think uh one thing that's not talked about as much. I think he's 20. I think he's a 20-year-old freshman, so he's kind of mature physically. He's utilized the high school red shirt. I think so. He yeah, he might have had a sixth year in there. So um anyway, it's gonna be fun to watch him down the road. And also over at your other alma mater pit, uh, Mason Heinstrell, 31 of 41 for 453, seven touchdowns. Uh the most of anybody in the nation this year so far. Usually early in the year, you get all kinds of games where people are throwing crazy amounts of touchdowns against Miami of Ohio. Uh boy, what a what a start for him. He showed a lot of stuff last year, and I mean he looked really good.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Looks like a beast. And it's funny, the I talk about underrated quarterbacks and Jaden. Um this returning quarterback class in college football was so loaded that a guy like Mason Heinschel gets no headlines and no national love. And honestly, in the ACC, he's like the fifth guy. He doesn't really get love in the ACC. This dude is a baller as well. And in the pit circles, you know, I played with a guy, I played with Penny uh Kenny Pickett when Kenny was a true freshman and saw the progression there. Kenny was a first-round draft pick, and I think Mason is further along than Kenny was as a true sophomore. He's that good. It will be interesting to see, you know, from an NFL trajectory, like how much ceiling he has left to tap into. But Mason's a baller, he's great off platform, has a natural knack for anticipation and getting the ball out of his hands. And to go into that game and throw seven touchdowns, but to seven different receivers spreading the love around with Cade Bell as his offensive coordinator, that offense could be incredibly explosive. And uh again, I mentioned Virginia being in that conversation for you know, who could maybe sneak up as that second team in the ACC with Heinschel as your quarterback. I think Pitt maybe is uh is right behind the hooves.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

ACC seems really exciting. I mean, uh Miami of Ohio, they were a bowl team last year, not exactly uh, you know, a pushover type of team the first week of the season. So very impressive from Heinschel. Uh big game of the week. Uh coming up is Ohio State at Texas. Everyone's gonna be talking about it. Uh as we get closer, it's gonna be touted as maybe the early game of the year in college football. Last year, Texas goes up to Ohio State, and there was lots of anticipation about that. It turned out to be a little bit of a snooze fest, as they both kind of were slugging it out. Uh no one was really uh airing it out or trying to take too many chances. Arch Manning's uh first game as a starter, I believe. And uh you think Texas this uh this year is going to take a different approach and try to take advantage of the the home field setting to try to maybe leave a little bit more out there versus last year, where I felt like they were sort of uh keeping things close because if you lose the game, you're not gonna get gonna get dinged that much. But maybe maybe uh they go for it this year.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:58

Yeah, and I felt like last year um Sark called it an aggressive game. I rewatched it last night actually because I did a YouTube video on you know how Arch has evolved and improved since that performance. And that was a bad game by Arch. You're talking about like 10 missed opportunities, missed reads, missed throws in that game. And so I thought Sark gave Arch the ability to win that game. I didn't think it was like a conservative game, but uh it's crazy. Arch looks like a different quarterback, and so I think they come in maybe with a similar game plan in terms of, hey, we're gonna push the ball on the field. They just have a quarterback who now has double-digit starts under his belt, and I don't think we'll flinch, and I don't think we'll look, you know, at a whack and we'll take advantage of some of those opportunities because there's a lot of yards and a lot of points left on the field when you go back and watch that film. And I think Texas's receiver room um is better than they were a year ago. But Ohio State, I mean, they're gonna reload. Ohio State's got the best receiver, and Ohio State's got a quarterback that now he has double digit starts under his belt. To me, I do think it'll it'll largely come down like your question. About different approach. If anything, I think Ohio State will come with a different approach. I felt like they very much had Julian Sain, hey, training wheels, don't make the catastrophic mistake. Well, now if we're talking about Julian Sain as a potential first-round NFL draft pick, like let the dude go. Let the dude eat. Don't have ball control and like don't make the catastrophic mistake. I wouldn't be surprised if you have Ohio State plays a much more aggressive game, knowing that it's going to be hard to slow down the Texas offense. I think it'll be a great one. And uh, I mean it's gonna be littered with uh with with NFL and uh and big time prospects.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Who do you uh who do you like in that one?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

I like Texas. I like Arch at this stage a little bit more than I like Julian Sain. Um, and I think Texas has enough chops defensively to not have to always double Jeremiah Smith. Obviously, you're gonna have to do that time and time again, but I do think they have enough dudes where they can get away with um, you know, trying to confuse Julian Sain and giving one-on-one coverage out there. And um I like Texas there. I think it'll be close. I think it'll be um, you know, one possession game into the fourth quarter, but uh, but give me the longhorns to come out on top.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

All right, you heard it there, folks. Uh okay, a couple more, and we'll get out of here. I'm curious, besides the quarterbacks we talked to, we talked about who who impressed you the most out there in in on that first week, the first week zero, week one. Who really, to you, given the given their circumstance, given the opponent, given the setting, given what they were going through, who really came out and showed you something that that you hadn't seen before?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

Yeah, this is a niche play, but hopefully the the true college football fans will appreciate this. But it's Pop Watson, UMass's quarterback, with the upset of the of the week against uh Rutgers. And Watson's a guy I've covered a bunch. He was the backup at Virginia Tech the past two years, and Virginia Tech went with Kyron Jrones, and there was a lot of hype there, and never really gave Pop a chance there. Goes to UMass, and in his first start, he upsets a Big Ten opponent, and that was like the win of the week to me. That was the one where uh, you know, if you're a Rutgers fan, like you cannot have that happen. He goes 19 for 22. I think it was his first start. It was definitely not, he doesn't have more than a handful of starts if uh if it wasn't. You saw the legs, like UMass completely controlled that game. And so I don't think Watson will necessarily be in the Heisman conversation at UMass, but I got to give credit where credit's due. That was one of the most complete quarterback performances that I saw. And uh again, for a guy that I'm sure in his helmet thinks he should have started and been playing a long time ago to go out there and take advantage of his opportunity. He's also a guy, too. If he keeps that up, he's UMass is gonna have a hard time keep holding on to him and wouldn't be surprised if his name pops up in the uh in the portal here in three months.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Wow, interesting. Uh and then what team do you think was the most impressive in the in the first zero, week zero, week one, uh, you know, that really kind of showed you something given the opponent, given the situation.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

Yeah, let's see here. Um, I'll go Miami. I and I know that was, you know, some people's national title pick, but they were ranked at like that seven slot, six, seven slot, where there were six teams that we were saying, hey, we're giving, we're going ahead of Miami. Now I'm walking away, being like, Miami might be might be the uh the number one team in the country. I guess I just thought there would be an adjustment period. You're bringing in so many new faces, and literally they roll out the ball, and it might as well be Darien Mensah's been throwing to Malachi Tony for years. Cooper Barkate getting involved, the complete game, the rushing attack. And I know you know Stanford might not be a top-end uh power for team, but I walked away really impressed with Miami, um, really impressed with Darien Mensa. And I felt like for Malachi Tony, in terms of the Heisman conversation, I think I saw this morning he's top seven odds right now. Um, the whole route tree feels more open to him. Last year, it felt like, yes, he was a dynamic receiver and everyone knew about him, but it felt like they were still scheming like screen passes here and then timely deep shots. You go watch that Stanford game, he's running the whole route tree. He's lining up in the slot, he's lining up out wide, and for a smaller guy that kind of gets labeled as a slot, he might be more of that like Antonio Brown type of uh when he was with the Steelers of like, yes, he might be a little more a littler guy, but they'll line him up wherever, and uh the whole route tree is uh is at his disposal.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Who do you take right now if you had to pick Jeremiah Smith or Malachi Tony? For your team in college football, not not for the pros, but for your team right now in college football.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

Yeah. If I had to pick, I'll go um I'll go Malachi Tony because I think team defenses are going more defenses are going to say we have to double Jeremiah Smith all game long. And so I think as the season goes on, I think he'll get less touches or less opportunities, or it will be harder to get touches. For Malachi Tony, I think Miami has so much around him. And because you move Malachi Tony around so much, it's harder for defenses to double team him, which I think will be more conducive to him getting more touches and have more opportunities to go off like he did versus Stanford. So I'll give uh the slight edge to Malachi Tony, strictly from a Heisman race perspective. If I was an offensive coordinator or an NFL GM, give me Jeremiah Smith, but from a Heisman trajectory, give me Tony.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

Yeah. Plus Malachi brings some uh some return game too as well. Good point. Great point. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

Who knows though? I I uh I have my the take I was saying is uh Jeremiah Smith. I wouldn't I don't think Jeremiah Smith gives the Heisman pose if Tony didn't do it 24 hours earlier. Like to me, I think a little rivalry is brewing. So maybe if uh Tony uh gets some punt returns, Mal or uh Jeremiah Smith's gonna be like, yo, Ryan Day, put me back deep and uh and give me a shot to return kicks too.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Wouldn't that be fun? That'd be fun to see. Yeah. Well, Matt Brown, thanks for coming on the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Uh as usual, great uh conversation with you. Congrats again on on the blessed event coming to you in February. And hey, keep up the good work in the ACC, and we'll see you down the road. Awesome. Appreciate it, Chris. Thanks for having me on. Well, that'll do it for this week's episode of the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to Navy for getting us Braxton Woodson, special thanks to CEO of the Heisman, Jeff Price, and special thanks to Max Brown over at ESPN. We appreciate you listening, appreciate you watching the show. Be sure to like, subscribe wherever you stream your podcast. Be sure to check out our YouTube channel and subscribe there as well. And we'll see you next week.