SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome back to the Heisman Hopefuls podcast, where we talk to the best players in the country, regardless of position and regardless of program. I'm your host, Chris Houston, and we have a very special episode this week because we are focusing on one of the most important yet underrated aspects of football, special teams. Often toiling away from the spotlight, sometimes called on in high pressure situations to win games, special teams players are a unique breed. Some of them aren't particularly big or strong or fast, but they serve a critical need on a team. They can be the glue that holds a team together, the catalyst that sparks a rally, that changes momentum, or that steadies the ship when the seas get rough. If things go wrong, they often bear the full wrath of fans and media. But when things go right, their performance can be a thing of beauty. So we're going to find out what makes them tick. We'll talk to one of the best return men in the game, Michael Scott of James Madison, who leads the nation in kick return average with two punt return touchdowns already. Then we'll talk to UAB's Jonah Delonga, a Lou Grossa Award candidate who is eight of nine on field goals so far this year and one of the nation's best at his position. We'll close things out with long snapper Owen Walter of Army, who is the first long snapper in the program's illustrious history to be named a team captain. I don't know about you, but I'm curious to find out why. Before we get to the first guest, I want to add a little commentary on this year's Heisman race as September comes to a close. You are no doubt seeing a lot of discourse in the media that focuses on who the Heisman leader is now and who's the odds-on favorite of the moment. And unfortunately, much of that chatter seems to be based on who had the best game this past week. But it's important to remember that it's a long season and we are just about a third of the way through. Don't get me wrong, September games are very important. While there aren't many Heisman winners who locked up the trophy in September, Tim Brown and Lamar Jackson being two exceptions that come immediately to my mind, there are plenty of players who have lost the trophy in the season's first month. The first few games not only set the tone for what is to come, they also serve the vital purpose of filling out the resume upon which the player will be judged come season's end. There are only 12 or 13 games that are played before the Heisman's decided. If you want to win, you generally need to cross certain statistical thresholds to attract the attention of the Heisman Electorate, so every game counts. And the players that leave September on pace to accumulate eye-popping numbers down the road are the ones best positioned to make it to New York. But I promise you this: no one this year has wrapped up the trophy at this point. There's a long way to go, and there will be several twists and turns along the way before we have a good idea who will be the next to join the Heisman fraternity. Every program, every position, every player.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

They are all Heisman Hopefuls.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Our next guest, Jonah DeLonga of UAB, has established himself as one of the nation's most accurate kickers. He is eight of nine on field goal attempts and a perfect nine of nine on PATs through four games in 2026. For his career, he is 39 of 47 on field goals, 17 of 21 from 40 yards or more, and a perfect two of two from 50 plus with a career long of 52 yards. His 39 career makes have traveled a combined 1,389 yards or 4,167 12-inch rulers laid end-to-end. Thank you very much to the UAB Sports Information staff for that fantastic note. He's on the Lou Groza Award watch list to honor the nation's best kicker, and we're excited to talk to him on this special teams focused episode of the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Yes, sir. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Hey, congrats on the big win over Navy. Uh 24-20. You had a 44-yard field goal. I saw you're back on the Groza Award watch list. Congrats for that. Tell me how are things going for you so far.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, no, it's been good. Um had a pretty good game against ULM second week. Uh went four for four. Uh we got a good team win there. Um unfortunately missed my first field goal um against Navy uh there at the end of the fourth quarter, but thankfully the defense made me right, uh, so we were still able to win that game. Um it's going pretty well. Um, there's a lot of good kickers out there, a lot of people playing well, and so it's always just trying to trying to stretch the good kicks as long as you can and um really make the whole season count. Um because I mean 12, it's just 12 games is a lot of games, and so you really you really got to perform every single week um for the season to go really well. But no, I'm pretty I'm pretty happy with the start I've had so far.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Nice. So you're from Mobile area, Davidson High School. Uh you played soccer there as well, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah, so that one that was actually my main sport. So my dad is actually the soccer coach um over at Davidson. Um, and so I I grew up playing that and everything. And so that's I guess that's a pretty common story with kickers. Everybody just plays soccer, and then everyone um one day you just start kicking footballs. Um and so I kind of had the same story. Um, I did both at Davidson.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

How did you start uh playing football? What what moved you over to that end of the of the school?

SPEAKER_03 5:15

So it was so it was actually a pretty interesting story. I actually started in eighth grade. Um I was at PE outside and we were just messing around with the football, and I started to kick it. And um it was actually uh Coach Binkley's name in uh my middle school at Clarkshaw, probably don't know what that is. Um and he saw me kicking and he said that they needed a kicker for the middle school team. And so I went out, I started, I played like two games for them at the very end of the season. Um and then whenever I got to Davidson, they said they needed a kicker too. And so I um jumped in and uh started playing as a freshman over at Davidson.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

Nice. Now, do middle school kickers actually attempt field goals?

SPEAKER_03 5:47

So no, and I was just about to say it's not it's not really the same as um high school or college or anything like that. Um the P I think I kicked like two PATs probably. I think they went for it half the time, but I I think I kicked like two PATs in the games, and there's no rush, and it's off the T. So it's it's pretty laid back compared to like college or whatever. But um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

And what did you have to unlearn from soccer when you started kicking a football?

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Um, I don't think there's a whole lot because I think a lot of what soccer is kind of carries over. I think now I understand a lot more. There's a few fundamentals um with kicking that kind of changes just the way you swing your leg and um trying to get the ball to go really high in the air where in soccer you're not really doing anything like that. Um, but I think being able to like carry just like that natural style helps a lot to where the kicking sometimes you don't have to think as hard about what you're doing, just because like some of that kind of takes over just because I played it for so long. Um, so I think it's been really beneficial um that I started with soccer and then transitioned to football.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

You know, I look at the old uh football highlights and you see these kickers, the straight-on kickers, which is kind of funny now. But what are the technical advantages of the soccer style kick versus uh the straight-on kick like they used to do for so many years, and then suddenly I think I can't remember who popularized it, but it there was a sudden shift over to that.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Are you are you talking about like the toe poke that they used to have?

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Yeah, where it would line up and they would just go straight and they would do like the almost like the big ninja thing and they'd kick.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Yeah. So I um I don't know a whole lot about the straight on. I know they used to do that back in the day, but um, I think you're just able to use a lot more of your body, and so that's why these kickers are kicking these these crazy long field goals. Um, just because I think you're able to use a lot more of your body and just using the other part of your foot, not just toe poking it. Um, I think the consistency is a lot easier just because you're hitting the ball the same way, whereas you're toe toe poking it, it's kind of I think it's all over the place. Um, so I I think just being able to hit the ball further um more often and then just being more consistent uh for sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

Walk us through a field goal from the moment that you run onto the field. What are you doing before the snap?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

So I I really just like to think about my process. Um, really just try to think about like if I'm working on something specific that week, or there's something I really want to focus on from maybe from warm-ups that didn't go so well. So I really like to think about like one or two things, kind of like a golf swing, I guess. A lot of people say, just try to think about those one or two things that I'm trying to do right um every single kick. And so whenever I get onto the field, I'm just keep thinking about that, then keep thinking about that thing, and then it's three back, two over, and then just try to go execute that. And yeah, really just that um snap, hold, kick. Uh really just try to execute those two things, and usually um your fundamentals kick in, and then if you do those those couple things right that you're really trying to focus on, usually, usually the ball go through the left rights.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Where are your eyes when the ball is snapped?

SPEAKER_03 8:35

I'm looking straight at the spot. Um, you know, the holder has his fingers down, I'm looking straight at that, looking for the ball. Um, some people I know they look at their plant like where their plant foot's trying to go. Um, but I'm usually I'm looking straight for the ball. Um and you kind of see it in your periphery as the snap comes, and I'm just looking straight at that.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

And then what part of your foot actually hits the ball?

SPEAKER_03 8:54

So it's it's kind of I guess kind of hard to explain all the, but it's like the it's like the bone on the the inside of your foot, kind of where your ankle is a little bit, just a little below that, I guess. Um just like the hardest part of your foot, because that's where you get um I mean you get if you hit the ball, it's going the farthest too. Um so you're really just trying to aim for that big bone on your foot.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

And then can you tell whether a kick is good before you even look up?

SPEAKER_03 9:19

I I think there's a lot, yeah. I think so. I think there's a lot of factors. Like if you feel like you like, like I feel like there's times when you hit the ball and it's like, oh yeah, like that's gonna go in. Um so yeah, I think definitely. Like I remember my my 52 yard or two years ago against Tulsa. Um, I hit it, felt really good about it, and our holder like screamed, he was like, bang, or whatever. And so um that one that was one of the ones I was like, yes, like I'm I'm pretty sure that's gonna go in. And so yeah, I think you can tell.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

Yeah. Every field goal takes three people. You got your snapper and your holder. How much do you three work together away from the team?

SPEAKER_03 9:52

A lot. I I think that's one of the most overlooked things in football, um, or just across the board for like specialists. I think people don't really understand how important having a good snapper, a good holder is. And so, I mean, uh this year I just we have a new snapper and a new holder. Um, because the last two years I had the same guy. So this year was new. And so I mean, just from January to to fall camp to now, I mean, just I mean, three times a week, a couple times a week, we're just out there um making sure we're getting live every single day, um, getting a lot of snaps. Because it it really does take a really well good rhythm to feel comfortable um kicking field goals on the field. And so them them doing well, which they've done well so far, um, really helps to perform.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Yeah. From your perspective, how important is the hold? Like what's the laces out? You know, that's the the famous mind. Like laces out, how important is it to have the laces a certain way?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Um, I think I think it's I think it's pretty big. Obviously, um with a kick, unless they're pointed straight back at you, it really doesn't make too much of a difference because your foot's still gonna hit the ball the same way. But I think just mentally not seeing the laces is huge. So like that's why it's always a big thing for kickers. Um, sometimes if you see them straight back or if they if they're on the side, or if you kind of see them a little bit, it can be like a little jarring because you don't really know how the hold is. Um, so having them out is huge. And again, I think that's just one of those over overlooked things sometimes with how having a good holder, um, how much you can benefit from that.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

You know, and football practice, uh, you guys are generally you're off kind of doing your thing at most practices. How do you uh take part in practices and yet still feel part of the the overall squad?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah, so I think I think we do kind of have a unique job just because like all the rest of the team they're always all together and it's kind of they're competing against each other. And so I think I think it kind of it's kind of you just gotta kind of enjoy the moments that you get. Um I don't know if that sounds bad, but whatever. Like we have we have field goal period, we have kickoff, we do all those things. And so I think really trying to engage with the guys, trying to make sure they're engaged, and like when you hit a good field goal and they they celebrate for it, make sure you're celebrating with them. Um after you hit field goals, I make sure I try to um dap over high five all the O linemen just to make sure that they they enjoy it too. And I think I think just when we start playing games and you start making field goals and the special teams do well and people start appreciating it, I think it really brings the team a whole lot closer, um, especially um for guys like us that necessarily don't get to hang out with the team um just at a regular practice or anything like that. So I think I think I really enjoy the games the most um just because you really get to be a part of what the rest of the team is doing as well. Um, because if the office is doing well, demons is doing well, I mean the special teams are doing well, then um everything just kind of comes together. Kind of like kind of like what we did against the Navy, just a really good team win. And I feel like when it's like that, the the team really comes together and we're able to get in there too um and enjoy the time with the team.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Now, do you also do backup hunter or any other uh special team stuff?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

So I punted in high school. Um I don't know if I'm quite a college caliber level punter. So I did kickoffs last week because our kicker was out. So I backup kickoffs because we have kickoff guy. And then I can't long snap, not that I would ever do it in a game, but but uh, but no, I'm not really a backup anything else, just uh field goals, kickoffs, and then we have the onsides.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

And of that trio, you and the the snapper and the holder, are you kind of like the de facto leader of that trio in a way? Like just the the guy who's the fighting and the thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

I think I think so. I think it's football kicker. I mean, you're the guy that's um doing the the actual the motion of the football kicker, but I think I think it takes three. Um I'm very fortunate that we have three guys that are the same age as me. We're all all fourth fourth year of college football. And so I I wouldn't necessarily say I'm the leader. I mean it I kind of I mean it kind of moves how I move just because I'm you're the kicker and so you're kicking the ball and everything like that. But I mean, I think it really just takes three three good guys. And so I'd say that we're all three play equal parts in what we're doing on the field. And um, I think they feel that as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

When you're out there, how do you read the win? Do you look at the flags or do you look do you look at something else? Are you you know do you stick you know stick your finger up and try to see which way it's going? What's the what's the the process there?

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Um I I think it's I think it's a few of those things. I think the flags obviously play a big part. I mean, that's what they're there for. So that's good. I think and I think getting a good feel pre-game is is really big, just going out there because I mean that the win can change a lot over the course of a game. Um, but just kicking both ways, pregame, getting a good feel for it, looking at the flags, I think just all that kind of kind of makes you uh help to judge it accurately.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

I'm really curious about when you go on the road. I mean, I feel like that's got to be the hardest situation for a kicker. Uh when you're doing warm-ups and you're trying to learn the stadium, what do you what are you looking at in the stadium?

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I feel like a good thing for for field goals is A, like you said, like if there's flags on top of the stadium, I like looking at those as well, just like seeing what the wind's doing, how windy it is, um, and if it's swirling uh just because of the way the stadium is. But I I always like to think, I try not to think too much about it. Sometimes when you're playing on grass, it is a little bit different, but I always try to think that every stadium's kind of the same. I mean, the field is always the same size, the uprights are the same size. Um, and I really don't like to get too caught up in it um whenever we go on the road. And so I try to think about it like that. But I mean, you do like I'll pick out like a spot like where I want to aim if I'm on this hash or if we're in the middle of the field for each side of the field, just because if I've never been there before, but yeah, I really I really not try to try not to think about it too much. I've been uh feeling kind of old though, because I feel like every stadium we play away now, I've already been to since I've been in this conference for four years. But yeah, you know, it's yeah, it's been good.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Well, that's a good uh good advantage to have definitely going in. You kind of know what to expect, you kind of feel comfortable in those situations, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Yes, so yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

How many kicks do you take in a normal week?

SPEAKER_03 15:29

So we usually kick uh three times a week before game day, and it kind of just varies on the day. Like so one day we'll have kickoff, and usually I get a little bit more because I'll do the backup, I'll get some reps for that. And then um Thursday as well, we'll have kickoff too. And so it's it's kind of it kind of depends. Um, I don't really count to be honest with you. It's really kind of a feeling thing. Like uh last week we kind of had a short week because we played on Friday, and so I try to kick a little bit less just so that I'm ready for the game. Um, but it's really just a feeling thing. I can really give you a number. I don't want to be be too far off, but yeah, it's really just a feeling thing. Make sure you don't kick too much um and that you kick enough to feel good about what you're doing that week, but to not kick so much that you your legs feel like it's about to fall off by the time you get to game day.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, how do you know when you kick too much? Like, is there like a sweet spot?

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Um, I think you kind of it's it's kind of like working out, I guess. Like the you won't necessarily feel it that day, but then the next day, you know, you'll really know, say if you're like if your legs kind of hurt. But I I I think just my freshman year, I definitely probably kicked too much during the week. But I think now just that I've done it for this my fourth year, I feel like I know kind of where my limit is and how much I need to do. And like I was saying earlier, I'm kind of feeling older. And so I try to kind of limit limit the kicks a little bit because I feel a little bit more sluggish after each day, just because I'm getting old. But um I guess not. But yeah, really, really just a feeling thing. Um, and you'll you'll kind of know the next day.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

So if you guys have a uh mishandled snap or a block kick, you guys yell fire or some kind of thing uh where you have to adjust there. What's the process for when there's there's uh a problem with the snap or the hold?

SPEAKER_03 17:03

So it's it's basically kind of like what you said. Um it's just if if it's a bad hold or if it gets away from him or if it's it's low or if he just doesn't get it down. Um yeah, we yelled fire, fire. And then thank thankfully, um, that's never happened to me before, so I don't know exactly what would happen after the snap. We have like a little play drawn up or whatever, and um hopefully all that stuff would work if uh because it's kind of hard. I know I know you saw probably the other day, I think it was the Texas guy that dropped the ball. And so it's and it's kind of hard to recover that just because no one's really expecting it. Um you're really just expecting to snap the hole into the kick. And so I honestly don't really know what happened after the snap. I think I'm supposed to block block somebody. But um, but yeah, thankfully it's never happened to me before.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

So I hope that never has to happen for you. Uh as far as like going in the weight room, what are the exercises you do to strengthen your leg uh during the offseason?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

So we we kind of do we do like the regular plan that everybody else does, first of all. Um so we kind of get in there, we'll try to work pretty hard there, and then we do some like auxiliary stuff, like a lot of single leg stuff. Um, and then like you said, stretching is a big part of that. I'm just trying to get a little bit more flexible in the offseason wherever you're not kicking as much. And then just just uh we do a lot of sprinting as well, just to make sure you stay fast, stay twitchy, you know, and then just yeah, just do the do the regular general strength training, just trying to get stronger in the offseason because during the season it's a lot harder because you can't really lift as heavy and you can't really do as much because you're trying to kick so much and try to perform on Saturdays.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Have you seen cases where you can really like improve your leg strength through weightlifting or or is it or like speed of your kick or the placement? What is like the most important factor as far as if you wanted to increase your drive and your distance?

SPEAKER_03 18:40

I I think it's just a combination of the factors. I'd say I think I think getting faster obviously helps a lot. There's a lot of guys that might not be as strong, but they have a really fast leg. It's there to hit the hit the ball really far. And then there's other guys who it seems like their leg isn't moving at all, but they're so strong that the ball, the ball just pops off their foot. And so I I think it's fine in just where you're at. Um if you're a bigger guy, sometimes being stronger, if you're smaller, um, sometimes trying to get your legs a little bit faster. Um, I think it's just really trying to find your happy medium, depending on the way you're blessed, what abilities you have. Uh, because I think like if you're a really strong guy, getting a little bit faster, a little bit twitchier can help benefit a lot. Or if you're like me a little bit smaller, um, trying to get it a little bit stronger, a little bit bigger in the the weight room can really help out. Um so I think, yeah, just trying to figure out what's best for you.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Sure. As a freshman, you kicked off, but you didn't attempt a field goal. What was that year like waiting for your shot?

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Um, I I think it was good. I think I think you learned a lot. I was really glad I did uh kickoffs um and didn't just have to like not do anything because I think I learned a lot um just coming into my first year of college football, sitting by Matt Quinn. He was he was a really good kicker, and so I think I learned a lot from him. He was an older guy, and then just being able to go play like we played at Georgia in that game, my freshman year, and that was that was the fourth game of the season, I think, and that was really enjoyable. And you just really learned a lot about playing in a big atmosphere like that. And so I think it really set me up for success my sophomore year, just kind of knowing what it already looked like, knowing what needed to be done, and then knowing how to go execute, um, just watching Matt. Um, so I I I think it was really good. And I think that um being able to have a year like that where you you don't do field goals. Obviously, coming in and jumping in field goals is great. Um but I think that you really set me up for success um my sophomore year.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

Yeah, for sure. You were the AAC special teams player of the year. Uh, and now you've made all 69 extra points that you've tried in college. Do you think about that streak or does someone have to remind you?

SPEAKER_03 20:29

I kind of think about it a little bit. Uh not really. Um, just because like I feel like it's a thing like you really don't think about too much. A just streaks or like records, all these things. You really just want to go out there and kick the football. But I also I just don't think about it too much because I think I think Matt Quinn had the the record here, and I mean it's it's something ridiculous, just because he was here for so long. And so I just know I probably won't get anywhere near that. And so I really just try to go out there and make sure I make every single one and help the team out um after we score a touchdown.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Like you mentioned, you had your first miss of the year against Navy. Walk me through your head. What happens after that kind of miss? How do you reset for the next one?

SPEAKER_03 21:06

So, yeah, so it is a little bit of a process. I'll say it does kind of suck. That first one, getting that first one out the way always it always because I mean you I mean a lot, a lot of good kickers, I mean everybody's gonna miss at some point. And so I think I think being able to bounce back from that is really the biggest part of it. Um, just because if you're not able to bounce back from a missed kick, then you're really not gonna make it too too long doing this. Um, and so I think I've against one of the things I've learned over the years, um trying to get a lot better at that, just being able to bounce back. Um, thankfully, like I said earlier, the defense made me right. And so I really can't be too mad about it since we got the win still. Um and the team is the biggest thing. And so we got the win. But really just trying to reset, um, focus on, like I said, focus on those two things that maybe made me miss that kick and try to fix it for next week so I can go and do the best job I can against Stanford next week.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

You had a big year in twenty twenty four, as we mentioned as a sophomore. Last year the numbers dropped a bit. What did uh twenty twenty five teach you uh uh heading into this year?

SPEAKER_03 22:02

I think one of the biggest things, obviously, I think it's it's really hard to come off a year like 2024 and then just be in the exact same mindset because you you really have a little bit of expectation on you now, trying to trying to repeat that. And so I think I may have let that get to me a little bit. Um it was also kind of a weird year, you know, we had the coaching change and everything like that, and we didn't attempt that many field goals. But I think I think it really taught me just to not really lean into the expectation too much, but really just go out there and do the best that you can um with what you're given, with what opportunities you have, and just try to get better every week um and try to play to the end of every game and just just like that. Just think about one kick at a time and don't really lean into the expectation too much.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

One thing I'm really curious about, and it's something that I think fans always you know complain about uh when a coach calls a timeout to ice kickers, does that really work?

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Um I I think it depends. I think I think sometimes it might, sometimes it doesn't. I I like to think that it doesn't. Um just because I feel like most guys, um, especially at this college level, everybody's everybody's pretty good. And so I feel like it doesn't really do too too much. Uh just because I feel like most guys know their process well enough to where they're kind of doing the same thing every time. But I mean you say that and then you go out there and someone you they make it the first time and you ice them and it and it works. And so I I think I think coaches are gonna keep doing it. And so I I would say it probably doesn't work, but I think just just watching it in practice, I mean I think it does work a little bit. Um sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

And what do you do with that extra minute? Are you just do you just like reset, go to go do your routine mentally, or you take a walk? What do you what are you doing on the sideline when when they when they call timeout?

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yeah, I think I think it's kind of just resetting because it is kind of it does it does make a little bit of a difference because like whenever you go out there for a field goal, usually you're usually going out there and the play clock's running, and so you just gotta go out there and do it. And so I f I feel like just treating it as like yeah, just another opportunity to reset and try to go out there um and just go through the same process you do for every play, um, just to make it make it not really any change from what you normally do.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

You had a 52 yarder against Tulsa. What's your real range, would you say? Like what what's like the furthest do you think you could kick?

SPEAKER_03 24:03

I mean, the can the conditions are huge, obviously. It went went in the back, went in the face. But I mean, I I think getting back to 60 um recently, I've gotten a lot stronger since my freshman year. Um and so I think if the opportunity is right, definitely get closer to 60.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Say if the game was well in hand, for example, and the situation called for it. Are are you kind of in the coach's ear saying, hey coach, can let me have a shot at a 59 or a 60 yarder?

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Um I I kind of try to stay out of his way. I now if I might be thinking that, um, I just don't know if I would say that, but I I do. It is it is kind of hard sometimes, um, because not a lot of guys get those long-range field goals because a lot of guys have the range, and it's it's kind of just getting that opportunity to hit one of those long field goals. And so I I would love to I would love to do that, but I I try to try to kind of stay out of the way and just whenever they call my name, I go on the field.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Yeah. Do they actually ask for your input? Did they say, hey, do you think you can make this? What do you think? Or do they just like get out there and make it?

SPEAKER_03 24:57

No, um, no, so they kind of so usually what me and our specialist coordinator uh do before the game, I um I like like I said earlier, kick both ways, see what the wind's doing, see all that stuff. And I usually give them like yard lines to where we need to get to um in order for us to be in range. Now, sometimes like if like you said, like if we were in hand or end of end of half, end of game situation, sometimes he'll stress that a little bit or ask me and be like, hey, like are you good with this? And I'll be like, Yeah. So it just depends on the situation, but I usually give them yard lines.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

What's the one thing that fans get wrong the most about kicking?

SPEAKER_03 25:30

That's a hard question though. I think just this is probably how how difficult it is to be a a good kicker for a long time. Like I and I I also think that people judge kickers based on one kick sometimes. I think I think I'd probably go with that as the biggest thing, just because like I just saw Tyler Luke make a game winner the other day, and so I w I was thinking about how last year he he had a pretty good year. But everybody all people remember is that one 44 yarder against the um Steelers, I think. And so I think I think sometimes people overlook how good a kicker is, like Tyler Luke is a great kicker, um, just because of that one miss he had. And so I I think a lot of times people don't understand they only look at the one kick the one time when they're really paying attention and they don't they don't notice all the other times when you needed them and they were there. Um and so I think I think that's probably the one thing that people get wrong the most.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Coach once told me that the quarterback position is a lonely position. It seems like the field goal kicker is a pretty lonely position too when you're out there all by yourself. I mean, you're not by yourself, but you're kind of with your own thoughts. It's kind of you against yourself, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Yeah, I th I think so. I I think it's I always say it's funny, it's either it's either they love you or they hate you. I think it's either the most celebrated position. Uh you make a game winner or you make a big field goal and every everybody loves you. Or um, like I was saying, I happened to loop, but if you missed, then it's it seems like no one's really on your side. So I I think it can be a lonely position sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Oh, you're back on the Groza watch list. Uh what do you make of that watch list? Do you keep keep track of all the other kickers around the country?

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Um yeah, I I think you don't want to lean too much into obviously I guess told you, like not leaning too much into expectation, but I mean I I like looking at what other kickers are doing, how they're doing. Um now since I've been in so long, just going to like some camps and stuff. I know I know met a lot of the guys, so it's good to see how everybody else is doing, how a lot of the other good kickers are doing. But I really I really try not to lean to it too much because you know last year I was on the list as well, and I didn't have the greatest year. And so I try to I try to think about it just once one one game at a time. We have this game coming up, next game, next game, and then just see see where you end up at the end of the season and just do the best you can.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

Jonah, it's your senior year. What what do you want out of this season and and then what do you hope comes after?

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Yeah, so I I haven't gone after the season a lot of thought. This this season though, I hope um we continue to do well. We just came off that win against Navy. Um I think we'll have a lot of opportunity to win a lot of games this season. Um I really hope we end up making it to a bowl or um even beyond that, um maybe a commerce championship. Because I think we have a really good team this year. So I'm I'm looking at that because I've never been to a bowl game, and I've always heard they're a lot of fun, a lot of a lot of good opportunity in bowl games, and so I'm hoping we make it to one of those. And then just after the season, I try not to think too hard about it. Um all this stuff with this eligibility issues and all this stuff. I don't know if I'm gonna get another year or if I'm I'm gonna be done, but just just try to make this one count um the best that I can see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Yeah, well, uh Jonah DeLonga, uh, really appreciate you taking the time to uh share all this information about kicking. This is kind of a special teams-oriented episode. We're also gonna talk to a long snapper as well and a returner as well later in the show. So appreciate you taking the time and sharing with us all your knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Yes, sir. Thank you all so much for having me.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

Thank you, and good luck against Tamper.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yes, sir. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Our next guest on the Heisman Hopefuls podcast might be the best return man in the entire country. He currently leads a nation with a kickoff return average of 50 yards per return. He's tied for the national lead in punt return touchdowns with two, and he's fourth in punt return average with nearly 22 yards per return. His marquee game so far are two punt return TDs, a 92-yard kickoff return, and 303 all-purpose yards against Wagner. He's also a capable wide receiver with seven catches for 86 yards so far this year. His overall explosiveness in the return game has helped James Madison get off to a 4-0 start under new head coach Billy Napier. And with this episode having a special focus on special teams, we thought it was only appropriate to feature an elite return man. He was wide receiver and return specialist, Michael Scott of James Madison University. Michael, welcome to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yes, sir. Thank you for having me, man.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

I want to delve into the details of your craft as a return man, but first let's talk a little bit about your origin story. You went to Dallastown Area High in York, Pennsylvania. Yeah, single day all over the field.

unknown 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

First team All State as a junior and senior, playing wide receiver, defensive back, and kicker. It's not something you see every day from a skilled position player. Uh you also played soccer, basketball, lacrosse, you ran track. You just love to play sports, right? When did you sleep?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah, man. I just love like I'm a very busy. I'm a like I like staying busy because like I have ADHD, so like I always like, I like to just stay, I can't like sit in one place at one time. So especially when I was younger, I would just be like, Yeah, my sign me up to play soccer, sign me up to you know, do tracks, sign me up to do basketball, all this stuff. But like, yeah, I feel like it definitely shaped me into the athlete I am today, though. So thank you. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Do you think you could still like do some kicking if if are you like the fifth string field goal kicker right now?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

If you go back on my Twitter and watch what I watch my 60 yard field goal, watch I can I can kick. I can kick now, for real.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Wow, I gotta go look at that. I should I can't believe I didn't I gotta get on my researcher about that one. Hey, so when did you first return kicks? Did you volunteer to do it or did coaches just stick you back there?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, so last year I was Wayne Knights backup when number three's backup um for pump returner. I never really did kick return. Like I wasn't coming coming in this year. I always ready, I was ready to compete, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna be I'm probably gonna end up being the punt returner. Um, but you know, by God's grace, they put me back at kick return too. And you know, I just made sure that I was doing everything the right way, you know, just being reliable is the most important part, especially a returner, like let having them trust you, making sure my boss security is good, making sure I'm catching everything. So, like, yeah, that was the main thing I focused on, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

Yeah, we actually talked to Wayne earlier in the season over at UCLA. You were you know, you weren't a big factor uh in the return game last year as a freshman, but now you're one of the best in the country. What clicked in the offseason to get you to this level so fast?

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yes, sir. So, you know, like coming in as a freshman, truth, coming in as a true freshman, like your your mind is racing. Like, I'm not, I wasn't really focused on the return game. I was really focused on making sure I was lining up correctly in the offense. So um with this new coaching staff coming in, the new offense that we had, I felt like it was so much easier for me to learn the offense just because I've been in a I've been in a college offense already. And like basically everything in college, like especially offense-wise, is the same. It's just different terminologies. So I was really able to adapt and really learn the offense fast, which that led me to be able to really learn and be a student of the game in the return game as well.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Yeah, your first touch against Wagner, a 92-yard kickoff return that ended at the five-yard line. What happened on that play? Does it still burn me? I don't lie.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I hit like 20 more miles, I hit like 21 miles an hour in that play, and I'm looking at, I'm like, how does it the guy had the angle on me? So I got through the hole, and I'm like, oh shoot, like I didn't know where to go, so I was like hesitant, kind of like, because like I was like, okay, I was if I go left, you know, if I go left, I might be able to beat him. But I was like, nah, I'm just gonna make a full speed decision. Boom, I cut through, boom, but I like hit the I hit the gear too like slow. Like when I hit it, it was too, I should have like just trusted it off rip. But like I was so mad because I'm like, man, I needed that one, man. Like I needed five more yards. Five more yards.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

You're trying to, you're trying to get too cute, huh?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

All right.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

Well, take us through the first part return touchdown when you did score against Wagner. You fielded it at the 24 just before halftime. Yeah. When did you know you had a chance to score on that one?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

So, like, all week, I've knew I've known before the game, like I had a chance, especially just trusting my training. And our scout team group gave us a great look, like literally the exact same look we got in practice we got in game, which that was so helpful. Like, we're just looking when I cast the ball, I'm gonna make sure to get vertical, press the defense one way, and make sure as soon as I see the as soon as I see the open gap, hit it. And I did that, and you know, it was like kind of like it was history from then. As soon as I hit it, I was like, oh yeah, I I can't get caught. And I seeing the kicker coming this way, I said, Yeah, I gotta boom, cut back. And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

Nice. Well, you scored on another punt return early in the third quarter. Did the second touchdown feel different from the first?

SPEAKER_00 33:54

It kind of did because I feel like the their return, their uh like cover team, they were fielding it and they were expecting me to go all the run all the way to the left. Like they thought we were setting up something to the left side, but um I was like, boom, I ran to the left, like two steps, and like out of my peripheral, I seen an open gap. So I said, boom, left, wow, hit it. And I was like, oh yeah, if I score this one, and then I saw a flag. Nobody knows this. I saw a flag and I got so mad, I'm like, no way. If this gets called back, and I was like, no way. And then they said it was a touchdown, so I was happy, but um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

It looked to me like the Wagner guys were a little bit tired at that point, too. They were just so tired of chasing you.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

You know, you you mentioned that you uh you're credited the coaches for scheming everything up, uh, you know, preparing you for the for the game. What exactly did they spot going into the game?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, so they really they're basically seeing like uh Wagner was a team, they had a lot of like a lot of good players on their team, just like a lot of athletes. But we just trusted the guys, like this is like one of the programs, like Coach Winger talks about it all the time where all the guys really want to see like all the guys are doing it, all 11 guys are doing what they need to do for everyone to be successful. So this guy's making this block, this guy's making this block, and like it doesn't really happen like that all the time. Like one guy's if one guy's off, the whole entire play is ruined. But I feel like we're just like if we do what we need to do, if we execute what we need to execute, it's gonna be a home run hitter. And it happened, thank God.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Sure was amazing. Two touchdowns, 92 yard kickoff trade as well. You finished with 303 all-purpose yards, fourth most in school history in a game. Did you know that during the game? And and when did it sink in?

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Honestly, I didn't, I honestly wasn't even paying attention to my yards until after the game. After the game, I was like, I might be, I might have had like 220, 230. Because I really wasn't thinking, like, I was like, oh, I might have I was like, that was a game of my life. I probably had like 200, because I've never done that before. And then I went into my brother after the game. I was like, he was like, Mike, you know how much yards you had? I said probably like 220. He's like, you had 303 yards. And I started running around. I'm like, what? Because it was just like it was like all the hard work and dedication that I've been like just working towards it all like paid off, and it's like I'm just gonna keep going and keep getting better.

SPEAKER_04 36:09

Uh, you know, and also you guys got a block kick for a touchdown. I think Coach Wagner uh got a raise after that game after all the games. Miles Halbert.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Miles Halbert, that's my dog. Miles Halbert, he had the block kick and he's been working. They just put him on scholarship and he deserved it so much. I was so happy for him. But like just that block kick just showed his hard work and dedication paid off.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

Yeah. Now, after the Wagner game, did you see a difference in how opposing teams kicked to you and punts?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

San Diego State didn't kick me the ball kick return. I didn't even get a kickoff return. Uh, a lot of their punts, I got a couple of punt returns, but their punt return cover team was really pretty good. ODU, they kicked me the ball, but they tried, I think they tried to kick away because they kicked the ball on the ground, and then I and I picked it up off the sideline. And I could, it could have been a tease tape rep where I like stepped my one foot out of bounds, but I was like, I might only get one of these. So I picked it up and I took it for like 80 yards. Uh thank God that my whole entire unit did exactly what we worked on all week. Like I said, Scout team gave us a great look, and they blocked it up perfectly, and yeah, worked out again.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Well, let's go over some of the basics of being a return man. I want to talk about punts first, okay? Yes, sir. Okay, walk us through the seconds before the snap. Where do you line up and what are you looking at?

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So, like, usually our base lineup is like between 40 and 45 yards. And a little tip that I've got from watching different return is like Devin Hester. I look at where the punter is tilted, and like I cheat over there because especially now that I'm having a lot of success on the in the punt return game, punters are gonna try to probably punt away from me. So now I'm trying to look at different tips that I could use to be able to, like, okay, boom, they're tilted this way, let me go over this way, or let me go over this or let me cheat over here, or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Right. So you're mainly looking at the punter's body or the way they're oriented first. That's like your first tell, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:56

I look at the punter's body, then I look at where the flyers are, where the uh gunners are, and I'll be like, okay, the pun's probably coming this way.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Right. So you have to make some really fast choices while these guys are just sprinting right at you. How do you track the ball and then notice the coverage all at once?

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Yes, sir. So what I do is when I see the punt coming, boom, the punt. So first the snap, I see, okay, boom, I see the long snap. The long snap is free. So I know I'm gonna have to make him miss. So boom. I line up and I judge the ball. Like, I feel like I got my my judgment and the flight of the ball has gotten so much better from the spring all the way to now. And I judge the ball. I stand right underneath the ball while the ball's in the air, and then I look, you get one look. So I look, boom, one time, and I see where it would where the hole was at, and then I look back, I catch the ball, and I just hit that hole where I seen. But it's like so, like, it happens so fast, and I'm like, it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

How long did it take for you to kind of get that rhythm down?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

If you ask my special teams coach, he was like, I don't know what he was doing in the spring, Mike. I don't know what you did to work on it, but I've gotten so much like better at it. I consistently worked at it. I would call him and be like, okay, what can I do better on this rep? Like in practice, like what could I do better in here? And he would help me out so much. Like he's he's developed me into uh like a very uh a decent return, and I just thank him because I wouldn't be what I am right now without him.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

It seems like you'd have to be a bit of a thrill seeker to return punts. Does that describe you?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah, man. Like I'll just be like, because I had a punt return, I had a punt return against ODU. The first punt return I had. The guy when I I was gonna fair catch it, but I'm like, no, I'm I'm gonna I want I need to return this. And the guy when I caught it, he was like one yard in front of me, made a miss, boom, boom, and then it is all. But like, it's just like it could be dangerous one time because people don't understand you back there, the balls kick 60 yards in the air, like five second hang time, maybe four or five second hang time. And it's like you gotta make sure you secure the ball, because that's the number one thing about being a returner. Make sure you secure the ball. Um, and yeah, but one time, like, say I don't fair catch and I try to make a move and I get hit, I just gotta live with it and be like, okay. But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Well, how do you decide when to make the fair catch? Is it they usually tell you ahead of time, hey, I want you to fair catch it, or is it just a total judgment call on your part? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 40:16

So, like, what my coach says, well, my coach tells me, he says that we are the beacon of the return team, which means we have the can we have to have the bet be the best communicators to help the return team. And I feel like I've gotten really good at that as well, like knowing like when that when it's a bad, when it's a bad kick, when it's a bad point, I say Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter, and I roll my hands like this to make sure everybody gets away from the ball. And um, I don't know, coach really trusts me in that in that area, and he gives me the ability and option of like, okay, if you want to return this, return this. Um, and obviously if the ball is like, if we're 40 minus 40 and we return the ball, it would just be like a Pacino technique where we just um just fair catch it so we so we don't have to waste any yards and just get the ball back to the offense. That's the main thing.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Yeah, do you also have to count out the the guys on the line of scrimmage? Are you counting out out the total guys on the on the return team?

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Yeah, so the base basically what we do, I honestly don't have to do that because Coach Wanger does a great job with before um before the punt team's about to line up, like third down, he'd be like, all right, pump block, pump block, pump block. And we we have dots. We have 11 dots. Um so all the guys line up and he counts all the guys before and be like, okay, you guys go out. And I usually have said sand down to the sideline. So he does a really good job with that. Um, but it's always good to double check. Like I make sure, okay, boom, 11 guys right here, boom.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Got it. And then what does the rest of the return need to do while you wait? Tell us about the jam on the gunners and the wall that your blockers build. Is it like return left, return right, center? Like, is it usually a call? Which you know which way it's gonna go?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, there's usually a call. We have a couple of calls. I'm not gonna say too much because you never know. But like uh we have like, you know, obviously vertical return, just giving me the ball, just be able to make a move. Um, and like different things like that of that nature. But usually it's just like boom, you get the ball in your hands, the blockers are gonna do what they need to do, and now it's your job to, you know, first number one, like I said, get the ball back to the offense, but always be a playmaker as well.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Yeah. You know, muffed punts are can be game killers, right? How do you practice ball security and how do you move on from a mistake when you make it?

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, man. So we have jugs at practice, um, and we worked them all spring. All spring, all summer. We worked jugs, and the jugs were the probably the hardest, really the hardest of because they put on like way higher than they're ever gonna be, just so we can have like the judgment um aspect of the things. And I feel like that's why I've been so good just covering punts. Like I got a punt last game, um, the wind, it was super windy, and it was like it was like a like a great spiral. The kick was like freaking Eiffel Tower distance in the hair. I'm turning around and I like caught I had to catch the ball like this with my hands. But it's just like I feel like just me playing receiver helped me with in that case as well, because I feel like I have natural hands, and I feel like I'm gonna out that just helped me be a natural returner with catching the ball as well. So I don't really I've never had I've never had a problem with muffin punts. Like I've c I catch punts all the time, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

So let's talk about kickoffs now. First, what do you like better, punts or kickoffs?

SPEAKER_00 43:22

I don't know. Like I really like you know the thrill of like being back on a kick return, you know, first opening kick return, everybody jumping up in there. Whoa, whoa, oh, take it back to the crib or 92 yards or however far I took it. But uh, it's just like so nice just starting off the game and giving like giving good field position for your offense, you know. But that's that could go the same way for punt return as well. Like they're equal in my eyes, right now they're equal to me. But like if I had to choose one, I would definitely say punt return.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

But like they're both I thought you were gonna say that. I think you're gonna.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

I would definitely say punt.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

So how does the setup for a kickoff return differ from a punt return?

SPEAKER_00 44:05

So kick return, I have somebody back there with me, like another off returner back there with me. Punt return, I'm the only one back there. So the communication aspect on kick return is more val more important because you never know you might get a sh a short, shorter kick to the front line. I gotta communicate that. You might get a kick to the uh off returner, which I gotta communicate as that as well, so that we can have the right blocking instance. So, like I said, kick off is work as fast too. Like I gotta be the beacon of the return team in that case, too. So it's just a lot of communication going on and communicating that I have to do on my part to make sure that we are successful.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

And then when do you decide to take the ball out of the end zone rather than take a touchback?

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah, man. So coach also gave me the lead way with that one as well. Like, um, and just honestly being aggressive is the main thing. Like a lot of the time, like if the ball's kicked over my head, I don't need to take it out because we're gonna get it at 25. It's field position. Like, sometimes if I take the ball out, I can't I'm not gonna take the ball out minus nine, like minus nine yards into the end zone. Um, because that just wouldn't be statistically, that wouldn't be right. But um, you never know. Like sometimes if it's maybe two yards deep in the end zone, three, four yards, I'm gonna take it out because I've I trusted myself, I've been on myself always, you know. So um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

There are times when you feel it, right? You feel like you've got some extra uh spring in your step and you want to take that. I kind of think.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yes, sir, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 45:28

So um, how much of a kickoff return is getting good blocks and how much is making a good first cut?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Man, that's the the blocks is the most important thing, honestly. Because the pump returns that the kick returns that I have, I hadn't even got touched because of just the the guys, like I haven't got touched through the holes just because of how good our blocking scheme is or how good, like how willing our guys are to block. And that's why I'm saying, like, it takes 11 guys. Like, I could be the returner back there getting the praise, but it really takes all 11 of the guys. Like, yes, my cut matters wherever I go matters, but like it's set up from the back line to the front line to the you know, all those guys, and even the off returner making a good block.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

Yeah, and well, can a good return man make a return unit look good, or vice versa? Like, some maybe somebody's not so not the greatest returner, but the blocking's so good, so so there's great production, or yeah, maybe the blocking's not so good, but this guy's a you know a phenom, right? Yeah, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, it could go like you like you said, it could go both ways. Like, if we if there's not a good blocking team, if it's not a good blocking unit, um, a good return is gonna do what he like needs to do, like he's gonna get the yards for his team. But if it's a if he is a decent returner and you have a good blocking scheme, you're guaranteed 25 yards every time, minimum. You know, but that that next deciding factor is like, okay, can you take 25 yards and take it to 92 yards? If you can take 25 yards, because it's like one thing to put the offense on the the 30-yard, 40-yard line every to every time. If you can do that every time, teams won't kick you the ball. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

True. Well, you're a big admirer of former West Virginia all-purpose star Tavon Austin. What have you learned from him that you've applied uh to your role on returns?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah, man, I'm not gonna lie. I know every kid, I'm not just the only one, but every kid. Like, I've watched Tavon Austin since I was young. Like, watch, I'm like, yeah, I'm about to go to West Virginia to be like, I'm about to be him at West Virginia, all this stuff. My brother went to West Virginia, you know, so it was just a lot of things. And I'm like, yeah, I'm watching him every day. I watch his game against Oklahoma at 503 yards, all purpose yards, and I'm like, man, I want to do that. Like, I want to do that. And like just seeing his like how how much we relate in different like areas of our game, I'm like, man, like, like, I'm gonna be that. And I literally, like, um, when I was in high school, I had a conversation with him because he's from like kind of where I'm from, like near Maryland, the Baltimore area. Because I was born in Baltimore, Maryland, but I moved off to Pennsylvania when I was seven to get in a better environment. But he's from Dartmouth, Dunbar, so like we're kind of we kind of are from the same area. And I was on a visit um to Penn State when I was in high school, and he was there, and we were just chatting for like an hour, hour and a half, and we were just talking. He was just like, keep going, man. Like, you don't gotta be big, you just gotta be a dog. You just gotta be a dog, you gotta be undeniable. And that really, that really stuck with me for a long time. I'm like, man, I'm gonna make sure I'm a dog, I'm gonna make sure I'm undeniable, make sure I have the greatest work ethic that I can have, you know, so I that I'm undeniable, that my size doesn't matter, you know. I'm not the biggest guy, but man, I make sure like I'm never going down with the first tackler. Like, I don't care who it is, I will never go down on the first tackler.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Yeah, I mean, he was a great player, electrifying, and you're well on your way to being just like him if you if you look at it. Um what aspects of playing wide receiver, like you know, he was a wide receiver too, a very good wide receiver. What aspects of playing wide receiver are complementary to being a return man?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah, definitely the yak standpoint, like just the yak yards, I feel like I've grown so much in that. Like in high school, you know how it is in high school, like you don't really need to juke because you just run past everybody. So, like, um I always had that. Like, obviously I'll go to 707s and do the yak, but like I never really needed it. So my yak grew a lot and that's especially from my freshman year of college all the way to my sophomore year of college. I haven't had the chance to really like show it yet because I all my catches have been like either touchdowns in the end zone or it's been like just over routes that I've had to die for. But like when I get that chance, I will be ready and I am ready. That's probably the biggest thing that translates over to from return to receiver.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Yeah. There's been some great returners in Heisman trophy history. Have you followed any of them or seen old highlights of some of these great returns by Heisman winners by any chance?

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Man, I have wait, okay. This might be a stupid question, but did Devin Haster win the Heisman?

SPEAKER_04 49:46

He didn't. He didn't win the Heisman. He was actually uh he was not as a he was very good in college with return, but he became even better, you know, in the pros. And NFO, yeah. Sure. But he was great. But you know, there is a great stat. Have you heard of Barry Sanders?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah, I've heard of Barry Sanders running back, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

Yeah, so he he's the only player in the history of college football to return the opening kickoff of a season for a touchdown two seasons in a row.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

What? Yeah, you should go look that up. That's crazy. That's crazy. I gotta do my research. I gotta do my research a little bit. For sure. There's not the great return.

SPEAKER_04 50:18

Tim Brown, uh, another great part returner was later on a great player. Tim Brown was a part returner? Yeah, he was a part returner. But yeah, I'm not sure. That's crazy. Uh Coach Napier says you have a vision for who you want to be on and off the field. Describe that vision for us.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yeah, man. So like I just my like I just want to be a light to everybody. You know, like my first, my faith is my foundation. You know, my faith in Jesus Christ has grown me into the man I am today. You know, I want people to look at me and be like, this is a man of God. This is the this is a guy walking in his faith. This is a guy, you know, always happy. Every time you look at him, he has so much energy, you know. Energy is radiating off of him. Like, I want to be a thermostat, not a thermometer, you know. I want to walk into a room and change people's perspective, change people's days. You know, if people are having a bad day, I'd be like, you know, God loves you. You know, Jesus loves you, man. And just bring a smile, just bringing smiles at people. That's my main thing. Because, you know, that goes a long way outside, even outside of football, you know. Like, outside of football, you're just walking around walking down the street like you never know how much somebody might need. Like, man, like just you're having a good, just have a good day, man. You know, God loves you or something like that. You never know how bad somebody needs that. So just being that light is my main thing. I feel like that's my calling in this world.

SPEAKER_04 51:26

That's awesome. You've you've uh made my day better, Michael. Just talking about that. Starting to feel a lot better about myself. Maybe better today. Finally, what advice would you give a young returner who's maybe a little undersized and afraid of dropping the ball back there?

SPEAKER_00 51:41

What I would tell y'all, young returners, man, don't ever let anybody tell you that you're that you're not big enough. Don't ever let anybody test your heart. You're always all you need to do is be a dog, man. Just be a dog, be coachable is the most important thing, being coachable. And just if you do all that, if you work hard, if you're coachable, then that's all you really need.

unknown 52:03

All right.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

And obviously, make plays, you know, make plays, man. Obviously.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Of course, yeah. Well, we appreciate you coming on the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Good luck against Marshall on Saturday. Congrats on the great start to the season, and best of luck the rest of the way.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Thank you all, man. Nice meeting you, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

Our next guest on the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast plays one of the most anonymous positions in football. Now, we've talked to a lot of different positions in our four years here: quarterbacks, of course, running backs, receivers, linemen on both sides of the ball, safeties, corners, even punters and placickers. But Owen Walter of Army is the first long snapper to come on our show. The six-foot, 222-pounder from Arlington Heights, Illinois, is considered one of the best in the country at what he does. Remarkably, he is the first long snapper in Army's glorious tradition to be named a team captain. So, as part of this episode's focus on special teams, we're gonna hear about this episode's focus on special teams, we're gonna hear all about what he does. Well, Owen Walter, welcome to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm truly honored to be honored. Your teammates elected you captain, and Army says you're the first specialist to earn that honor. What did the vote mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

It's the greatest earthly honor I could have ever received here. Far greater than anything I could ever imagine. I just am so blessed and honored to be surrounded by such a brotherhood here of just guys that are truly my brothers. It'll be at my wedding when that comes, and they'll be my best friends of the day I die. And just the fact that they've entrusted me with that role to be able to speak on behalf of the team and be able to make decisions on behalf of the team and for what's best for the team. I'm just honored that they had in place me with that. Did you have an inkling that it was gonna happen? Uh uh were you surprised when it did happen? Uh there definitely was a little bit of surprise there, uh, because you never really know. I always had hoped that my teammates could see me and looked at me as a leader, and then just to be voted into the captain role here is just far beyond anything my childhood dreams could ever imagine. It's really remarkable.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

You know, your name is on the watch list for the Jason Witten Collegiate Man of the Year Award, which honors leadership and character. What does leadership mean to you at West Point?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Leadership is everything. Uh, this academy is so incredible in that it's the number one leadership institute in the world. And each and every day, every single cadet here is just getting refined in their talents, character, and their duty and their honor, and then all ultimately for the country. Just getting the training to meet people that have experienced far great things in this world and being able to pour into you to be able to help you become a better version of yourself is just so amazing. And that's just what this academy is about, and I'm so grateful for it.

SPEAKER_04 54:50

Before we get into the intricacies of long stepping, I want to ask you, what's your typical routine like at the academy from Reveille to uh to lights out?

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Yeah, so I usually wake up around 5.50, 6 o'clock in the morning. Allows me enough time to get on my uniform, make sure that looks good, get my bag situated and my room all cleaned up, bed made, and all that. And we go down to morning formation, which we have at 0650. And so each regiment will station somewhere on campus and we'll have our morning formation, and then the whole core will go to breakfast and we'll eat the mess all together. And then from breakfast will end around 720. And from then until lunchtime, we have class, class all morning. And so from 7:40 is my first class, I don't go all the way till 11:50. I'll be in class and then we'll have lunch formation again. Same thing. The whole core will eat lunch together uh in the mess hall, which is really neat. After that, I'm lucky this year I don't have any afternoon classes, so I'm able to come back to my room, get situated, try and cram in a little bit of homework if I can, or figure out what my evening is gonna look like. And then I'll come up to the stadium early, get treatment, and get prepared for a meeting or workout, whatever we have first, and then we'll practice through the afternoon, and then that'll end with team dinner, and then we'll get to go to go down to our rooms and crank out as much homework as we can before we go to bed.

SPEAKER_04 56:13

Army's got a glorious football tradition, including three Heisman Trophy winners, of course, Mr. Inside, Mr. Outside, Blanchard and Davis, also Pete Dawkins, later became a general. Uh, how much is that tradition part of your it's kind of present with you as you're walking around campus, as you're walking around the athletic environment?

SPEAKER_01 56:31

It's huge. Uh, and I want to touch back on that question you asked me earlier about leadership. And that's just what this academy is. It just instills leaders of character uh that can go on and like you said, you touched on it, become generals. Like not only just be a Heisman, but then go to be able to be a general in the United States Army, the greatest team there is in the world uh is super cool. Um and so we got those Heisman trophies here at the Academy, so we're able to see them in our Hall of Fame and stuff like that, and just knowing that the history is so rooted here and so deep, it's just super cool to get to say that I'm a part of that.

SPEAKER_04 57:07

Well, let's get it into a little background on your football career. When did you start long snapping and and what about it appealed to you?

SPEAKER_01 57:13

So I started long snapping my I want to say summer going into my sophomore year of high school. Uh I had a high school teammate named Zach Zy, who ended up long snapping the University of Wisconsin. Uh he had taught me on the spot because we knew he was graduating, he was a senior at the time, and so him and my special teams quarter in my high school Tim Feisher taught me how to long snap. I mean, just grab the ball like I was gonna throw it and then use the other hand as a guide hand. Just did that in high school. I was uh HVAC and a wide receiver in high school, and then the playoffs turned into a wildcat quarterback, and then got to come here and focus on just long snapping, um, but not lose that athletic ability, which I'm very grateful for. Uh that's just the credit to our strength coaches here and the academy of my coaches for and placing me in a great position to do that. And when did you first realize that long snapping was something that you could do well as a football player? Uh it probably wasn't until about halfway through my junior year, senior year when I realized through game reps that like, oh, I can do this. Like at first it was like I just picked it up because we needed it, and I thought it was fun and I thought it was cool, another opportunity to be on the field. Um and then and my high school coaches told me to put in my highlight tape, my recruiting tape, and so I did. And that's kind of the rest is history from there. But I was like entrusted by Coach Sat to be able to do that here and Coach Bunkin as well, and the rest of the team.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

What you know, for a for a long snapper's highlight tape, do you do special drills that that showcase you know your speed and accuracy, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 58:46

So my my school highlight tape was a culmination of my HVAC stuff, my Wildcat quarterback stuff, and then at the end I think I might have had one or two long snapping clips. Definitely was not the best long snapper. Definitely needed training and some coaching to further myself, but the coaches saw something through that film and gave me an opportunity, which I'm eternally grateful for.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

You know, most fans notice a long snapper only when something goes wrong. How do you describe your job to someone who's never thought about it?

SPEAKER_01 59:14

It's a good thing when our name's not called. Uh that's that's the best part of the job. It means you're doing a good job when no one notices you and everything goes well. Um I get to say that my job's just in placing our kicker and our punter in the best possible position to do their job to the best of their ability. And I'm just honored that I get to have a piece in that to help them do what they're good at and do what they excel at.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

What does a perfect snap feel like when it leaves your hand? And and can you tell a bad one before it lands? I can't.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Uh I can definitely feel it off my fingertips, whether I spin the ball the right way on a field goal to make sure I give our holder laces to set up the kick for success, or the speed at which I'm moving in my snap to get it to the punter. Um as I'm doing that move or doing the snap, I can tell if it's a good snap or bad snap as I'm doing it. Um so I I always try my best to keep it on the good feeling side of things rather than the opposite.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

And and how do you control the rotation so the laces arrive where they belong for the fuel goals?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

So I've gotten the opportunity to long snap the last three years. I've had three different holders over the last three years, and each of them catches the ball at a different distance and stuff like that. And so it's just a lot of time and work with knowing how many spins I need to get before it gets to his hands on fuel goals so that James uh our punter just if I put it on his hip, that puts him in the best chance to do his job, the best of his ability.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

If you're trying if you're hiking for the fuel goal and you want it to get to this the holder, so the laces are in a certain position, to get laces in, are you are you snapping with the laces in? Are laces out? Like how many rotations have you counted the rotations before it gets to the to the destination?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

It's usually about like two or three rotations before it gets to our uh holder. I've definitely played around with trying to snap without the laces. And I I've found success at times, but I feel a lot more uncomfortable snapping with the laces and then it comes down to just where my wrists are and how I bet my wrists, uh, and that feeds into how I follow through and has a big effect on this fender.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:28

You have to snap looking upside down between your legs, and then a defender hits you. I mean, how do you snap and then focus on protecting at the same moment?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

One of the things I'm very uh grateful for is my defense on punt and on field goal. Um both my guards on punt and on field goal have communicated me a ton. We've worked at it a lot about what I need to know because obviously I'm looking the opposite way of where the play is going, uh, or where I need to go. And so they're communicating to me pre-snaped on what it what it looks like, what it what's going on, what I need to know. And with repetitions comes trust. And so I'm just able to trust them and they trust me, which is get a feel for each other and you're allowed to play off one another.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:15

What does a normal practice week look like for you? Like how many snaps do you take, and and when do you stop snapping just to kind of stay fresh?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

Yeah. Uh so I've never really counted how many snaps I've done in a practice. I've always wanted to, uh, but we go out, warm up, we're getting the warm-up snaps in, and we'll just look a little bit different than my regular snap, just more looking at mechanics and the fundamentals and things. And then we'll start off. Usually we'll have our punt field goal periods at the beginning of practice. Sometimes we'll have in the middle, uh, and sometimes at the end. So it's just always which I appreciate it because it's like a game. You never know when we're gonna punt, you never know when we're gonna kick a field goal. So it's always just being ready over that span of time and however long practices. Uh it's just getting reps sporadically. Uh I put a lot of focus on getting game reps and putting myself in a game situation. So very rarely would snap repeatedly over and over and over and over again because that'll never happen again in a game. Um maybe if there's a flag or something. But I usually try and space it out, run down and get some coverage fits in on the punt, space it out, allow myself to get in that feel and get that rhythm to uh set my mind that I'm stepping up into a rep got the metal game handled and approaching it the best way I can to hopefully get the outcome out of the board.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

What does film study look like for a long snapper?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

I mean, what do you learn from an opponent's rush? The biggest thing is just looking at how it the opponent uh depends upon whether they're how often they're rushing, how often they're going to coverage, what they're looking like, who they're dropping back, who they're rushing. Um and then that helps me understand kind of where I need to position myself on upon coverage or where I need to be aware of the field goal blocking or blocking on field goal. Um and so just intently going through reps, watching previous years as you get later in the season, you get to watch the games from the season to see how the team is actually working now. Uh and that's just going through with coaches, coach's attorney or special teams coordinator, and just going through reps and seeing how other long snappers had done things and just kind of learning from that as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:29

What's it like? You're you're listed at 222 pounds. What's it like uh when you're snapping a field goal and there's like a 350 pounder across from you and maybe a couple more uh on on either gap on either side of you? I mean, what's like what's going through your head in those situations?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

It's a lot less of a factor in punt. Uh like you said, in field goal. Like yeah, you got D-Lightman and those big boys coming at you. Um I got my my 300-pound guys to my left and right on field goal and my guards. So having them there to support me, I guess is my I do my job. Uh a lot of intentional time in the weight room. Uh as I touched on earlier, some of my values, athleticism, and just being able to stay fit and make an impact in that way. We always talk about control and the controllables, and that's within your control, is your is your own strength and your own personal skills and attributes and abilities. And so that's something I'm able to work on during the offseason with our strength staff. Um and allow me to use my body to the maximum capabilities.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Got it, got it. So, you know, specialists often practice apart from the team. Uh they're often off in the big one corner of the practice field working on their craft. But you're also a team captain. So how do you lead players who rarely s rarely see you work?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Yeah. Uh so here we value special teams a lot. It's a third of the game, it's a big portion of the game, uh and a lot. lot of yardage is being handled throughout special teams. Uh so we value that a lot here and put a big emphasis on that and practicing fundamentals and just getting those reps in. I've been blessed with the opportunity to work out with guys in other position groups uh within my rack and then also out summer workouts and offseason conditioning, working out with the skill players and stuff like that. So I'm allowed able to have a presence there. And then like you said, we we go out to our game field and we get reps there because that's the atmosphere you're going to play in on Saturdays. And so getting that feel and able to play at that is something that's very valued. And then I just got to give credit to my Lord and Savior him being able to shine his light through me and use me as a vessel.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:53

I was looking on the roster Army lists five other uh long snappers on the roster. How do you teach them and and and what do you want them to inherit when you graduate?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

I got to give a lot of credit to Drew Prieto. He's one of our other senior long snappers. I went to the prep school and he came in direct so we came in our freshman year together and he he has gotten me so much better throughout the last four years on long snapping and my skill set being able to do my best. So I gotta give a ton of credit to him and a huge shout out to him. And I also our other guys getting the chance to just lean on one another and have each other watch the reps and pick out what looked good, what looked bad what you need to work on, which what should you change? Your culture within your position group matters. Your culture within your side of the ball matters. Your culture as a team matters and so bringing that down to the lowest level one of those things here we learn at West Point is you got to be able to have those small those small groups of small units got to be able to have the culture you want and show that and love each other and look out for one another and want the best for one another. Not all the time uh we got asked a question like that during media day over the summer that we're both centers and I thought that was funny. Uh we'll joke and make jokes about it off the field and sometimes at practice but he's he's an awesome man and I'm I'm blessed to have Brady Small and Steven Adozi as captains with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:31

How do you like uh on punts getting a chance to go down and sticking your nose in the in in the thick of it and get some tackle yeah I I love playing football.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

So getting the chance to go get a tackle or run down the field, beat a block, whatever it is, just the c contact sport. That's what it is. That's what's so awesome about it. I always try my hardest to feel get down there in coverage as fast as I can uh to go make a play. You're a senior finishing up your last year at West Point. What do you plan on pursuing after graduation? So after graduation uh I we go through a branching process here at West Point and that's what your job will be once you graduate. And so I interviewed for infantry as a branch I intend to go into. We'll find that out in December. I think it's the first week of December is when we'll officially find out what that job is. And so once this football season's over we'll begin the army focus and straight focus on the army uh as I have in the last four years here of my career uh and so once I graduate I'll get a little bit of time off and then I'll go do a little bit more army schooling before I get sent to my base. Got engaged this past summer so I'll get married in June of next year which I'm excited for.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:50

Congratulations to that on that last one here we'll get you out of here what would you tell a high school player who wants to become a long snapper one of the biggest things is confidence.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

Your your mind and your brain have such a fact on your abilities as a player and specifically to long snapping. You gotta be comfortable and confident in how you move and how you operate so mastering that mastering your own mind take the time um to do that I've been blessed as I said earlier about my Lord and Savior and where I am in my faith is really allowed me to excel as an athlete I'm very grateful for that. So getting the mental side of things and then like I said earlier as well controlling the controllables. So getting reps in getting working getting filment um maturing your body as a younger guy in high school you're going through puberty you're growing up you're becoming a man and so getting the time in the weight room and maximizing the opportunities you have in those areas uh those would be the two biggest things just the confidence and the control of what you can't control in the physical side of things.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

Very good. Well Owen Walter thanks for coming on the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast good luck to you this Saturday against Louisiana Tech. Best of luck the rest of the season and best of luck in the infantry and best of luck with your with your wedding and marriage going on in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:14

Thank you so much, Ms.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

Honored that you had asked me to be on here and thank you for your time well that'll do it for this week's special teams themed episode of the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Big thanks go out to all our great guests Jonah Delonga and UAB Michael Scott and James Madison and Owen Walter and Army remember to keep voting in the Heisman fan vote. You can vote every day at hopefuls.heisman dot com. We'll be back next Thursday but until then I'm Chris Houston and thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast