SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Heisman Hopefuls podcast, where every player, regardless of position, is a Heisman Hopeful. This week we've got two players from opposing sides of the line of scrimmage. Both are projected first-round picks in next year's NFL draft. First, we'll speak to Kentucky left tackle Lance Heard, a member of Kentucky's rebuilt Big Blue Wall. Lance has helped Will Stein's Wildcats to a 5-1 start and a number 15 ranking in the latest AP poll. Afterwards, we'll speak to Mark's Story, the Lexington Herald leader, about Kentucky football's progression and whether it can be the next Indiana. These are, after all, the days of miracle and wonder in college football, to paraphrase the great Paul Simon. And then we'll flip to the other side of the trenches for our final guest, Tennessee defensive tackle Xavier Gilliam. Xavier is breaking out in a big way in his first season in Knoxville. The Penn State transfer leads all into your defensive linemen in college football with 10 tackles for loss and has been a massive part of a Tennessee defensive line that leads the country in sacks. So we're moving up a few weight classes in this episode right after the music.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Every program, every position, every player.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

They are all Heisman Hopefuls. Our first guest on this week's Heisman Hopefuls podcast is a standout, 6'6, 320-pound left tackle on one of the nation's premier offensive lines. He helped the Wildcats to a thrilling overtime win against LSU this past week. He's a former five-star recruit. He's played in purple, he's played in orange, and now he's finally settled in as one of the key bricks in the big blue wall. Currently projected as a first-round pick in several mock drafts, it's Lance Hurd. Welcome to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Thank y'all for having me, man. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Lance, you're five and one, and you just beat the school you started at. What did that one feel like for you?

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Uh, it was emotional, man. Um been through a lot of my career and it all started there, you know. Um I came out loving LSU, you know, and it was it was just a great time, you know. And also it was my birthday weekend, so it was good to bring that in.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Wow, what a birthday present. Happy birthday to you. Does it feel weird to play your the team that used used to wear that same uniform? Does it is it because, you know, you've been to Tennessee, obviously you've been to LSU. It's gotta feel a little bit weird, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yeah, it did feel kind of weird. I'm like, man, it just don't feel right. You know, because I was used to being in purple and gold for a while. You know, felt like that was my home for a minute, but you know, we got the job done.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

For sure. Uh, you know, this year Coach Stein made it clear that reviving the big blue wall was a key to this program's development. In the LSU game, you guys held them to just a 4.7% pass rush win rate. Is the big blue wall officially back?

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Man, I I don't know much about the previous big blue walls, but you know, any time we've ever played Kentucky, they always had a good offensive line, so I don't know if they ever left.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Fair enough. You know, you've been at LSU, as we mentioned, and then Tennessee and now Kentucky. But unlike many guys who've moved around that much, you've you've seen many meaningful playing time at all three of those schools. Uh what was it about Will Stein in Kentucky that gave you the confidence to make the switch?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Um, I would say his confidence. And you know, from the moment I talked on the phone with him, I just knew like it was something different about him, you know. Um great guy, very smart. Um, I love his scheme, you know, and he's a great coach, you know, he's a personable guy. He probably can walk through and tell you every single player's name, you know. He's a great dude.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Well, speaking of schemes, you know, you played at three different schools now, left tackle for three different schools. What are the differences between the three schools as far as scheme and just about the the traditions and the feel and you know, even just things like walking to practice and and going to to you know, eating meals and that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_03 4:18

I mean, every every one of those experiences was unique, you know, in in their own way. You know, every school has their own traditions and the way they go about doing things. Um and the schemes were also different, also, you know, it was you know, it was way back then when I was playing with Mike Denbrock, you know, and at LSU, and you know, Coach Hyper scheme was a little bit different also, you know, and and Coach Stein has his way of doing things too.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Well, you've now gone viral with your two for one blocks against South Carolina. You look like a man possessed out there on that play. Can you walk us through that play a little bit? We're gonna cue it up.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Well, man, it was uh here we go. On this pending poor play. I just I saw the I saw that guy creeping. I knew that the tight end was gonna block down. And I knew I was gonna get a shot at him. You know, that first one right there. Yeah, I just saw him right there, and I was just like, oh, I'm gonna go get another one. That's like I was trying to get another one. I was trying to get a third one, but he he ran.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Man, yeah, that's like the like you see those kind of plays in movies where guys are like blocking uh people off the screen and that kind of thing. Were those the guys you were supposed to block, or were you just kind of freelancing out there once you got to the second level?

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Well, yeah, the first guy was my guy, but you know, the second one was just extra.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Does that just give you a satisfaction knowing that you're just knocking guys down uh all over the field?

SPEAKER_03 5:54

I mean, it's fun. I'm never satisfied though. Like I said, I wanted to get another one.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

ESPN called you a high-end run blocker, especially as a puller. In fact, one analyst said you were one of the most violent pullers he's seen. What do you love about pulling?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

And I just love pulling because I get a chance to get in open space, show my athleticism, and go take a shot on smaller guys, man. I mean you know, it's fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah. Coach Stein uses a lot of shifts and unbalanced lines. Uh what's it like to play in an offense that moves you around so much?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Uh, that's also fun, man. It's really fun, you know. It it makes it exciting, you know, when when coach don't care to throw me in the backfield and let me pull around as if I'm a tight end or he's back. You know, that stuff is fun, man. And he's he's unique with that stuff. He look he's like, and he don't care either. I like that about him, you know. If he if it's in, he's gonna call it.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Do you look forward to those plays? Like when they call it, you're like, oh, here we go. This is gonna be fun.

unknown 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

From the moment I hear it in the hood, I'm like, yeah, finally.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah. You're so athletic. I mean, what about just giving you like a you know William Refrigerator Perry shot at the at the you know, taking a taking a uh carry into the goal line, maybe. Have you ever thought about that?

SPEAKER_03 7:16

I don't know, man. I hope so. I let her do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

You know, through five games, pro football focus had you without a sack allowed. Do you keep track of that kind of stuff or do you try not to?

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Uh I really don't, honestly. You know, I really just go play ball, you know, and you know, I wouldn't know if I gave up a sack or not, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Right, right. Well, which kind of rusher gives you the most trouble? Is it the the long-arm speed guy or the short, powerful one?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Usually the shorter ones, because I'm so tall. You know, they got leverage already. So the shorter ones really give you trouble.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, what do you end up having to do with them? Is it just meaningly you're just trying to sit on them?

SPEAKER_03 7:59

Yeah, usually that's what it is, you know. I can't give all my sauce on here. Some people might be watching, you know, they might try to use it against me. But yeah, the shorter guys, you know, they they usually already got leverage on you, and that's why it's so vital for an offensive lineman to be able to bend knee bend, hip bend, ankle flexion, and all that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah. You don't want to be a waistbender, you want to be a knee bender, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Facts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

How do you s how do you study a defensive end on film? What what tells are you looking for when you look at a guy?

SPEAKER_03 8:31

I mean, I just look for obvious tells, run past tells, and you know, I mean, like if they're gonna jet up field and stuff like that, you know, I just I study film for like a while, you know, just studying every little step, you know, see if they're counting their steps or not.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

What's the one thing you're working on right now that most people wouldn't notice?

SPEAKER_03 8:53

I feel like I work on my overall game, you know, whatever I feel that needs tending to, whatever my coach corrections he give me. You know, I trust in my coach, I believe in my coaches, and I know they won't tell me any lies and they're gonna steer me in the right direction. So I really lean on them real heavy, you know. So if I ever need any work in my game, I'm always looking for feedback, always.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Your position coach, is he the kind of guy who gets in your face, or what kind of motivation does he use for you and and what what do you respond to best?

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Um Yeah, he he can he can, you know, he can get after you pretty good, you know. Um and I and I I can respond to that. I can respect that. That's what I want. And that's what I need, you know. I love Wakos and he's he's very passionate, you know, about offensive line play.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And I am also, you know, so Who's the toughest defensive lineman you've gone up against so far in your college career?

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Man, probably like I mean, some of the guys that I played with, you know, like when I was at LSU, Braden Swinson, you know, he's with the Patriots now, he's he was really good. Um R. Mason Thomas from Oklahoma actually was really good. Um man I've I've been against some great guys like James Pierce, you know. A lot of those dudes was unique, they have their own play style. Um But I've I've I've been against some really good guys, man. And all of them was unique and have their own style.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

When you watch football yourself, do you find yourself watching the left tackle position most of the time?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Yeah, I I I do. I watch the offensive line play a lot, you know. Sometimes. Sometimes I watch the quarterback, but usually it's offensive line play. I'm always watching that. I usually watch football for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

And who's your favorite left tackle to watch?

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Trent Williams. Easily.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Is he the one player whose game you'd most like to emulate?

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah. Yeah, most likely. You know, I like his I like his aggressiveness, man. He can you know, he can go out there and knock some guys out too.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

You ever see him get a two for one like you did though? Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

I don't think I feel like he have though. You know. I feel, I mean, he played, what, 17 years still playing in the league? I'm pretty sure he had.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

I mean, getting the two for one, that's like doing the turkey and bowling, you know, or something like that. Getting like two in a row, I feel like pretty rare. Uh, you know, a left tackle has never won the Heisman Trophy, but there have been a couple that have finished in the top four. You know, John Hicks of Ohio State was the runner-up way back in 1973. What should Heisman voters look for in a great left tackle? How can they tell to the untrained eye when a left tackle is excelling at the highest level?

SPEAKER_03 12:05

I mean if it's just good offensive line play, like if he has a good set, if he's square, you know, good hands, good feet, good IQ, I think that can get offensive alignment Heisman Trophy. We should we should definitely look into that though. I think I think we should get some offensive alignment, some Heisman trophies, man. People probably wouldn't like it, but I agree.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Like, make your case. Like, why should you win the Heisman Trophy?

SPEAKER_03 12:35

I mean, because we athletes too. I understand we ain't making like electric plays, you know, like catching a ball, throwing it, you know, or breaking up passes or anything like that, but I think offensive line makes plays go.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Well, you know, knocking two players over on the same play is pretty electric to me, uh, in my book. So, well, you know, Lance Heard, thanks so much for coming on the Heisman Hopefuls podcast. Good luck against Oklahoma on Saturday, and good luck the rest of the season. Thank y'all, man. Mark Sturry has worked in the Lexington Herald Leader Sports Department since 1990. He's been a Herald Leader Sports columnist since 2001. He covers all things Kentucky sports, and he's here today to talk about the New Look Kentucky program under head coach Will Stein. Mark, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Wildcats are 5-1. They're coming off their second consecutive heart-stopping 35-34 win, the most recent against LSU. About what you told your readers afterwards, you may have just witnessed Kentucky football's best night ever. Tell us why that victory was so important for Kentucky football.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Well, it was just, it was the optics of the night were just perfect. Um, you know, you have Lane Kiffin, who is probably college football's premier villain at the moment. Um, you know, have him in the stadium. You know, you were able to beat him in the most dramatic fashion, you know, possible, which you have now done two weeks in a row in terms of winning on a two-point conversion in overtime. Um the the fans rushed the field, which you know, the SEC frowns on, but you know, it yielded just tremendous imagery, which you can see on X, you know, going out all over the country. Um the UK's game presentation, which has been, you know, this is a very local issue, but it's been you know controversial. A lot of people feel like they don't do as well as they could in terms of just producing games and and making them, you know, uh the best experience possible for the fans. Well, it was really good Saturday night. And the pyrotechnic show was good. You know, they the fans wound up on the field singing a Tyler Childers song, you know, after the game. And that was a cool moment. And and and just the foot, it was good football. It was an exciting game. You know, Kentucky, you know, did not play perfectly. They were missing field goals in the fourth quarter that would have put them ahead, but they didn't give up. And then you know they got a stop. LSU chose to punt on fourth and one in its own territory, you know, late in the game as opposed to you know going for it and see if you can close out the game. And Kenny Minchie drove the cats down the field. And you know, Adam Zuwagi, who had missed two field goals, you know, hit one to send it into overtime. And then it was sort of deja vu from the week before when they you know got the ball second in overtime, scored a touchdown, and Will Stein put up two fingers and you know, they went for two and won that game, and it was just sort of a deja blue, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Just a tremendous scene for sure. Uh what was that, $500,000 fine by the SEC? Probably well worth it, huh?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I don't think there's any question that they got more publicity value out of that field rush than the $500,000 the SEC required them to pay.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah. These are the kind of games that need to be sort of embedded in a program's DNA, right? Like the memory of beating quality teams, not just for the program, but for the fans. You know, you've been around the program for a long time. Kentucky, of course, is known for its basketball and football has always been uh the little sister. What has traditionally been the problem with Kentucky football? Why hasn't it been able to get off the ground over the years?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, I mean, they have been better. You know, Mark Stoops, you know, they went to eight bowls in a row. I mean, it has been a little bit better in recent years. You know, they're in a very difficult conference, you know, relatively small state. I don't think that Kentucky historically produces the level of in-state talent, you know, to certainly to go against, you know, what's produced in Florida or Georgia or Louisiana or Alabama. So you have to be able to attract players from out of state. You know, I, you know, it's argued here how much emphasis, you know, does the university are they all in on football because as you mentioned, they've been so successful in men's basketball. I think they are more all in uh, you know, last 20 years. I think they have been pretty committed. If you come here now and look at their football facilities, they're really good. I mean, they're SEC caliber and just really nice. So I think some things have changed that have, you know, given them a better chance. I think the current era we're in in college sports, you know, I think there's more parity within the Power Four conferences. You know, Indiana can win the national championship in football. You know, Michigan can win the national championship in men's basketball. I just think there's there's more opportunity now. I think players are less willing to go sit on the bench and wait their turn at Alabama, and that frees up more talent, you know, for Kentucky and Mississippi State and other teams uh in the league.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

I gotta think that with Indiana winning the national title last year, another uh traditional basketball school, on the one hand, it must have given a lot of hope to a school at Kentucky, but on the other hand, it's like a blessing and a curse, right? Because uh Indiana found this right the right coach. They used the portal uh to become great, they showed it can be done even at a basketball school. So now there's a lot of expectations that perhaps weren't there before, but there's also the idea that that it can actually be done. And so uh does Indiana's success put too much pressure on guys like Will Stein, who are now expected, you know, to do miracles and to turn this program around?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

No, I don't think it I think it's a Indiana's success has been a net plus for Kentucky. I think an awful lot of people look at you know what Indiana's done and say, you know, if Indiana can do it, why can't Kentucky do it? Now that may not be 100% realistic because I think Kurt Signetti, you know, I I don't I don't think you should sell him short. You know, what he's done, you know, I think he's the the the main reason there, and that may not be replicable, but I do think that Kentucky football fans have looked at Indiana and you know, Kentucky and Indiana, they've not been playing recently, but they played for a long time every year, and Kentucky, you know, was faring pretty well at that as in the latter years of that series. So I think Kentucky fans look at Indiana and think, hey, if that can happen there, you know, there's no excuse not to at least you know try to make it happen here.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. You know, the Wildcats have gotten up to good starts before they are most recently. They started five and one back in 2023 under Mark Stoops, but to me that was kind of like fool's goal at the time, and it kind of turned out to be just that. What feels different this time?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Well, they're they're better, they're they're they're better offensively. I mean, you know, Mark Stoops was probab the best UK football coach of my lifetime. Um, I don't want to do anything to minimize what he achieved here, but but that those teams were, you know, they were good defensively. You know, his good teams were really good defensively, and they ran the ball. You know, you know, Will Stein was hired to bring a you know higher level of quarterback play, a more exciting offense, and that's what he's done. I mean, they're they're really good offensively. And the thing that is really striking when you watch Kentucky play, they're they're really good at using formations to create open receivers or to create advantageous matchups. You know, among the coaches I've covered closely, Bobby Petrino when he was at Louisville, was the best I've ever seen at that. I mean, he was just a genius at that. And and what Kentucky's doing is reminiscent of that.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

And how much of a difference has it been to get a high quality quarterback like Kenny Minchy in the portal?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

He's been really good. I mean, he's you know, we're six games in, we're halfway through the season, he's thrown one interception. You know, he's been in these close games, you know, last two weeks, he's gotten better in the second half. You know, as the it was sort of became necessary to see what he was going to have to do to win the game. You know, he sort of rose to the occasion. And then just on the two plays that won the last two games in overtime, if you watch the play at South Carolina, you see him change the formation and call CJ Baxter, the running back who was split out. He calls him into the backfield and points at the edge rusher who was going to be unblocked, and basically you need to block him. And the ball snapped, Baxter picks up that guy, and Minchie throws the game-winning two-point conversion. And then in the the two-point conversion play against LSU, that was not a called, that was not a quarterback draw. It was not a called play. You know, he Minchy, you know, examined the field and saw that there was nobody in the middle of LSU's defensive formation and and made the on-the-field instantaneous decision. It's a good time to run the ball. And that's what you wanted at quarterback is somebody who is cool under game deciding pressure and makes good decisions.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah. Earlier in the show, we talked to left tackle Lance Heard. It also seems like the offensive line is a definite difference maker this year as opposed to some previous years. Some of these guys are really high level talents and they were ranked really high coming in. Uh, how much of a difference has it been to have just great guys in the trenches?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah, it's been huge. Um, you know, the the when when Stoops really had it rolling or had things going well, the the offensive line was a big part of that. And it became known as the big blue wall. And that, you know, was a big deal, at least here. And the big blue wall had sort of uh it crumbled and it's been rebuilt. And, you know, Will Stein and, you know, his brain trust, they came in and they committed a lot of their resources to rebuilding the trenches. And, you know, they brought in, you know, starting linemen from Tennessee and Ohio State and Baylor, and brought in a guy who was had not been starting at Alabama, but is starting here. And you know, those four guys have made a big difference. And that offensive line is good. I mean, you know, we're we're they're gonna get a big test Saturday night at Oklahoma because that's a really good defense. But but yeah, it's a really it's a good offensive line and it's made a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah. I've covered some pessimistic fan bases before. I covered Cal back in the mid-2000s, and they were heading to Tennessee to start the season. And I remember being uh in their fall camp and and there was fans watching the practice, and you can feel the buzz and they were excited. And the first punt of the scrimmage, the ball went off the kicker's foot and into the stands, and you could hear the air kind of come out of the of the fan base, like they they they were always waiting for the next shoe to drop. How thirsty is is this fan base for a high quality football program? Is Lexington ready to support it, or will that pessimist contingent always be there waiting for that shoe to drop, waiting for things to go wrong?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Well, people I mean fans have here have been hurt. I mean, there there's been a fair amount of pain, and again, that has gotten better. You know, they've it's it's been a better program um last 10 years than it has traditionally been. So a little bit of that has has gone away. But people are really excited, and and you can see that on um in the social media. You know, a lot of times Kentucky fans, because they're worried the team, you know, maybe won't back it up, they they're not on there giving other fan bases the level of grief that you know you you sometimes see. Well, they're on there now. I mean, they're really excited and and they're sort of you know going back and forth with the other SEC fan bases, and I think that's an indication of how excited the just people are about this team.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Can football and basketball coexist at Kentucky? I think so. I mean, you know, there are a lot of schools that are good at both. You know, Florida wins national championships in both. I mean, I I I think it can be done.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Well, the schedule sets up fairly well the rest of the way for the Wildcats. How many wins do you think they need to say they've arrived?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Well, I think you know, the expectations have obviously gone up. Um I think let's go, let's just start this conversation real high. I think you would need to get the ten wins to have a realistic chance at the at the college football playoff. I think it I think nine wins would be a really good season. And I think if you had offered people eight wins before the year began, they would have taken that with no question. So I think you know, when you're you have five wins going into the seventh game of the season, you know, I I think eight wins is sort of kind of your baseline at this point.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Well, Mark Story, thanks for coming on the show. Really appreciate your insight into Kentucky football. We're keeping a close eye on that program because there's so many exciting things happen in college football. Uh, you know, first and foremost, uh all these programs that are reviving and and growing uh in this new era of college football. So we appreciate it. And uh best of luck to you. Thank you guys. I appreciate you having me. Next guest is one of the best defensive tackles in America. He currently leads all interior linemen with 10 tackles for loss through six games, which, folks, if you know about these things, you know this is a pretty remarkable number for an interior lineman. He's a big reason the Tennessee defense leads the nation in sacks. And while the volunteers are sitting at five and one, heading into a big matchup against Alabama in Knoxville on Saturday, the pro scouts just love him. He is 6'2, 305-pound junior defensive tackle. Okay, Xavier Gilliam, welcome to the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Yes, sir. Appreciate you guys having me on here.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Wow, you're off to a great start. You know, you came from Penn State where you played quite a bit but didn't get starters minutes last year. Now you're starting at Tennessee, like we mentioned, off to a great start. You're leading all defensive tackles in the country with 10 tackles for loss. Uh was what was it about coming over to Tennessee that you think kind of jumpstarted your numbers? Was it just getting more reps? Uh was it just your natural growth? Was it being more familiar with the system, coming over with Jim Knowles? What do you what do you attribute that to?

SPEAKER_04 26:34

You know, definitely I feel like it plays into a couple of factors, you know. Coach Knowles definitely just being my second year in the system has definitely helped a lot. But also kind of just changing my mentality, you know, and then just in the offseason where I feel like all the extra work that I put in, just working on my bend, my my play strength, and just getting bigger, stronger, faster, I feel like all those are factors that have helped me to have a season that I'm having.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

What are your responsibilities as a defensive tackle in your s in uh in that system?

SPEAKER_04 27:01

I really feel like just control the trenches. You know, uh I feel like one thing, and I feel like the reason our defense is operating so good is because I feel like our D-line is so physical, and we're so so smart in how we play. You know, we play as a group, not just as one.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

I noticed sometimes you you line up shaded uh off the center. Sometimes you're right over the right over the nose. Which uh what do you prefer to line up?

SPEAKER_04 27:26

It really doesn't matter to me. You know, uh based off personnel, you know, what they're doing, you know, who's in the game with me as far as my other D-linemen, it's a whole bunch of factors, you know. But I would say probably I I really don't have a preference, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah. Take me through like the the when a snap's about to happen. Uh when you get lined up, what's going through your head? What are you checking out? Where are you, what are you looking at before the play starts?

SPEAKER_04 27:52

First thing I do is I always look in the backfield to uh kind of look at running back demeanor and look at where he's positioned. And then I'll probably look to the side, see uh if there's any tight ends in the core. And then the next thing I'm gonna I'm gonna line up, get my call, and I'm gonna see what's in front of me. You know, so usually just looking at the center guard or the tackle, seeing what type of keys they're giving me. And just putting all that stuff together in my mind really fast could give me a pretty clear picture of what I'm looking at.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

What part of playing defensive tackle comes the most naturally to you, do you think?

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Uh, I feel like being physical, you know, I feel like that's one thing that I've really added to my game is my physicality.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I noticed you you have a great get-off. Like you get shot out like a cannon coming off the ball there. Uh have you always been fast coming off the ball, coming off the snap, or or did you develop that uh as time went on?

SPEAKER_04 28:40

I feel like I've really developed that as a uh as time went on. You know, just looking back to when I early enrolled out of high school, coming into college, one of the biggest things was uh I felt like the game was moving a little bit too fast for me. You know, so kind of just working on that over the years, working on my get-off over the years, and it's it's what it's become now.

unknown 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Well, what part of playing defensive tackle is the hardest for you?

SPEAKER_04 29:03

Um I would say, you know, probably playing those double teams. You know, that's a lot of weight. You know, you at times dealing with 600 pounds, you know, so I feel like just dealing with that could be troublesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

You were in high school, I think you were uh 265 coming out of out of high school, maybe. At least that's what you were listed at. I noticed, you know, great athlete uh playing at tight end as well, playing basketball. He played baseball, you did the shot put in high school. Uh when did you decide that you wanted to focus on defensive tackle?

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Um, really when I got to uh got to college, you know, I'm at the end of my senior year, I was still kind of in between playing defensive end and playing defensive tackle. But when I had arrived at Penn State, it was more Coach Franklin's uh it was more his choice to move me inside the defensive tackle.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Mm-hmm. What do you think separates uh a good defensive tackle from a great one?

SPEAKER_04 29:57

I would say play speed. You know, I feel like as a defensive lineman, our greatest strength is our athleticism against the offensive line. You know, so I feel like somebody that could that has good motor, good plate strength, and is just moving at a different speed than the O line. I feel like they have much success.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

You know, defensive tackle is one of those positions where you don't get a lot of stats. You know, you got your tackles for loss, you got your tackles, got your sacks, uh, you forced a couple of fumbles this year, but some of that stuff doesn't show up in the stat sheet, the stuff that you do. How do you know at the end of a game uh that you've had a good game? Like how do you grade yourself when the game is over?

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Well, I would say I I can look at the stats of my teammates and know if I had a good game. You know, I feel like defensive tackle is probably one of the most unselfish positions, you know, because you're really creating plays for other people at times, you know. So really just, you know, I talk to my ends, you know, my ends tell me, like, yo, the ball bounced right outside to me. You know, I would know, okay, I did my job and holding my gap, making that ball bubble.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Who taught you the most about playing this position?

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Um, I would have to probably say, probably my dad. You know, he played uh he played nose guard in college, you know, and so he just one of the main things he always uh stressed to me was physicality, you know, and just being physical and being violent and uh turn confusion into aggression. And so those are just some of the concepts I've carried with me. Was your dad a pretty good defensive lineman? I would I would say so. Well, I mean, I haven't seen the film, but I would like to say so just because my dad.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah, d did you take after your dad as far as size and athleticism?

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Uh, so well, I will we actually have arguments about this. You know, he claims that he was some freak athlete, you know, but I definitely believe it though. He just working out with them growing up, you know, I could see the athleticism was there.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

At what point in your development were you thinking, wow, I I think I can play his position? This is the position that is made for me, or it's the position that I love?

SPEAKER_04 31:53

I feel like really uh around last last season, towards the beginning, you know, uh my freshman year, I I had I had to go through a couple of challenges, you know, in my development. And I feel like I was able to push through that last season, and that's probably when I really realized like I can do this at this position. What were those challenges? Um, really just like I said, the game was inside, like the game from high school to college is two different speeds, you know. So just adjusting to that game speed, you know, and then I feel like once I got adjusted to it, that's where I started seeing CSS.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah, what's something you wish you that other people knew about your position like from the outside? People watch the ball, they watch the quarterbacks, watch the running backs, but you guys are down there doing the dirty work, mixing it up with the O-line. What do you wish people knew about the stuff you do?

SPEAKER_04 32:42

I would just say, you know, just taking on those double teams, holding that gap, you know, making that ball bubble. You know, people are going to see that TFL when the linebacker gets it or when the defensive end gets it, but you know, they're not seeing you clogging that middle, making that ball go outside, you know. So I feel like real football fans, they appreciate the position.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I think I read somewhere that you want to coach someday. What would you teach uh uh young defensive tackle? What'd be the first thing you would teach that player?

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Uh first thing I would do is get his mindset right. You know, playing defensive tackle is is hard, you know. And if you're not gonna be, you're not gonna be good at it if your mindset is wrong, you know, and so I would make sure his mindset's right, and then first thing we're gonna work on is get off.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Right. You know, uh you're being talked about a lot as a potential NFL player down the road. How do you keep that out of your head as you're playing the season? How do you how do you keep your focus?

SPEAKER_04 33:32

I mean, well, suit, I haven't really done nothing yet. You know, season not over with, so like I can't even really think of that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Well, where do you want to be five years from now? What's your goal?

SPEAKER_04 33:44

My goal, playing in the league. You know, hopefully I'll have a family, you know. Hopefully things will be going well for me. Hopefully I'll be on my second contract, you know, just stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

What do you uh what what do you love about playing college football?

SPEAKER_04 33:59

The atmosphere. You know, I feel like it's something that can't be replicated, you know, just the the fans, you know, in a day-to-day life, you know, you go to class, you know, someone might recognize you at class, like, oh, you're Xavier Gilliam, like, appreciate it, you know, so just stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah. You've been in two incredible places uh to play football, two incredible atmospheres. How would you compare Happy Valley to uh Knoxville?

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Well, I'm not gonna be biased, but you know, playing in that Texas game, you know, that's the Nealham Stadium was rocking. You know, even we play Auburn Stadium was rocking. And I was I would definitely have to say that I do feel like Nealin is a little bit louder.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

How many times have you heard Rocky Top at this point, do you think? Uh can't count.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Can't even count it.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah. You know, no defensive tackle. Is everyone the Heisman trophy? If you could talk to a Heisman trophy voter and tell them what to look for in a defensive tackle, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_04 34:55

I would say look for their effect on the game. You know, you could tell good defensive tackle play, and not necessarily by the plays they're making, because you know they're probably not gonna get too many sacks, not too many tackle for losses. But, you know, just take a look at what's going on inside, like how are they affecting the play?

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Well, Xavier Gilliam, thanks for coming on the Heisman Hopefuls podcast. Really appreciate you taking the time. Got a big game coming up on Saturday against Alabama. Good luck in that one, and good luck the rest of the way. Yes, sir. I appreciate you for having me. Well, that's all for this week's episode of the Heisman Hopefuls Podcast. Special thanks to Lance Hurd and Kentucky, Mark Story of the Lexian Harold leader, and Xavier Gilliam and Tennessee. Lots of big matchups across college football this weekend that could have major bearing on the Heisman race, including Ohio State at Indiana, Alabama, Tennessee, Missouri, Old Midst, and Florida State, Miami. Be sure to watch those games. And don't forget to place your vote in the Heisman Hopefuls fan vote. You can vote once per day at hopefuls.heisman.com. We'll be back next week to once again chat with some of the best players in the country. Don't forget to like and subscribe to the Heisman YouTube channel and follow at Heisman on all our other platforms. I'm Chris Houston and thanks for listening to the Heisman Hopefuls podcast.